Talk:Paul Cain (minister)

Why is there no discussion here?

The page has been edited several times but noone cares to give their motives.

I've arked the page in need of a cleanup.

--itpastorn 20:42, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The article is purely POV. Hopefully we can clean up as part of the Charismatic project (see template above). David L Rattigan 21:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

additional documentation:

Here's what Paul Cain himself had to say about the situation in March 2005

A Letter of Confession

I must apologize to the body of Christ for my recent conduct. I want to correct the denials that I made earlier in reference to charges brought against me. I acknowledge the following:

1. I have struggled in two particular areas, homosexuality and alcoholism, for an extended period of time.  
2. I apologize for denying these matters of truth, rather than readily admitting them. I especially apologize to Rick Joyner, Jack Deere, and Mike Bickle for my misunderstanding of their attempt to discipline me according to Matthew 18. I have come to appreciate their loving intent for me in this process.  
3. I am ashamed of what I have done to hurt those close to me and the pain I have caused those who have believed in my ministry. Particularly, if I have hurt anyone by my actions of emotional or sexual misconduct, I am very sorry. I sincerely ask for your forgiveness. 

I have submitted to a team of leaders in the body of Christ who are supervising every aspect of my restoration. This team is headed by Larry J. Alberts (Fathers and Families Together, Minneapolis, MN) and Dr. Daniel J. Kim (Destiny Training International, El Monte, CA). Larry has considerable experience in restoration ministry and has been requested by leaders such as John Wimber, Rick Joyner, and Francis Frangipane to help restore highly significant ministers in the body of Christ. Daniel directs a training center which emphasizes biblical spirituality and prophetic reformation. I have submitted to Larry and Daniel to develop an appropriate program, involving professional treatments, so that I may walk in moral purity, spiritual and physical health, and wholeness of life.

With hope in Christ,

Paul Cain

I cannot find a current link on Cain's website, however this have been archived by the wayback machine from Cain's official website. I saw the original when it was posted.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050305180223/http://paulcain.org/news.html

It appears now that Cain has now decided to not continue with the restoration process with Larry Alberts. The reference for that is the Article posted by J. Lee Grady, the editor of Charisma magazine.

http://forums.strang.com/viewtopic.php?t=7820

Please note that Charisma magazine is a Charismatic publication, one that would normally ally itself with ministers such as Cain. Bickle, Geene and Joyer were also Ministers who worked with Cain. Cain spent most of his time with Bickle's church in Kansas City, Mo., when not travelling.

It is not disputed that Cain's ministry came to a screeching halt with the revelation that he was an alcolholic and a practicing homosexual. Nor is it disputed that he is not currently ministering,hence the change to "was" a minister.

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The morningstar bulletin states there was some evidence of some homosexual activity. Steven Strang collaborated with Joyner on this topic in his own press release in Charisma. It does not state that Paul is a practicing homosexual. Nor did Cain himself in his press release state that he is a homosexual. But in his own words. In a Letter of Confession 1. I have struggled in two particular areas, homosexuality..., for an extended period of time. Struggling with this moral issue over a period of time as Cain said in his own words. Is certainly not the same as practicing or living the life style as a homosexual. That would be like I struggle in the area of drinking diet coke. But struggling is not the same as actually drinking diet coke as a lifestyle or drinking coke period. But ive thought about it..

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Paul Cain apologized for his **conduct**. His words. Conduct does not mean leanings, tendancies, or stuggles. It means Conduct.

I'll let Cain state it in his owns words and let people draw their own conclusions.

• I have no direct information regarding Paul Cain's **conduct**. But reading the apology carefully, I see that he explicitly apologizes for his "recent conduct", whereas he has "struggled in two particular areas, homosexuality and alcoholism, for an extended period of time". Evidently the conduct he apologizes for is not the struggle, but something else. And he details the "something else": denial and misunderstanding. I don't know if he was a practising homosexual (implies persistent activity) or episodic, occasional, or even fantasizing homosexual, but the quote does not provide a smoking gun to support your assertion. Evaluist (talk) 06:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced Claim

"Paul Cains meetings were often punctuated by his calling out several people from the audience and giving very detailed information about their lives. On many occasions these prophetic words were marked by dramatic supernatural healings from God."

Hasn't faith healing been shown to be fraudulent by such debunkers as the Amazing Randi and Penn & Teller?

That would be POV since there are many who do not agree that it has been debunked. DavidPesta (talk) 02:59, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

There are also no sources or citations for this claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.24.46.45 (talk) 00:57, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

These sentences should probably come out and the whole article needs an overhaul, as all sorts of outrageous claims are both unsourced and unattributed. In the meantime I reverted an edit that further added to this claim, that called the "information" "incredibly accurate." Mike Doughney (talk) 01:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

References

Under the references section of this article the following was found:

"Blessings `our part in Paul's restoration began in July 2005

David Andrade 626-372-4163"

I have removed it from the article and placed it here, though I do not believe it even belongs here. Flofor15 (talk) 21:02, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Due to David Andrade's apparent edits of this article, including his addition of his own quote, links to his own page (that didn't exist), I have edited his work out of the article and have summarized instead. This also makes the article more readable. I have reworked the section about his public apology and reinstating to make more sense and be more readable. I have added more information about the process of his apology that is NPOV and doesn't make Cain look better than the Charisma article does. Flofor15 (talk) 02:19, 28 July 2013 (UTC)