Talk:Patrick Keogh

Sources for expansion

Some online newspaper articles that may be valuable in expanding the article:

• "Old-time rugby – Giants of the eighties – The Native team". The Northern Advocate. Whangarei. 26 September 1922. p. 7. Retrieved 18 August 2015.
• Williams, George (31 May 1924). "Three matches a week – Strenuous days of the Native team". New Zealand Truth. Auckland. p. 9. Retrieved 18 August 2015.
  • This spends a lot of time on Keogh and I hadn't seen it before.
• Off-side Mac (12 August 1910). "Sidelights of rugby – Some tricks of the game". The Dominion. Wellington. p. 12. Retrieved 18 August 2015.
  • Author of this is "Off-side Mac" -- William McKenzie (rugby union) -- who played for the All Blacks in 1893 and was considered quite a tactician. [1].
• Forward (19 June 1890). "Forward – Notes by Forward". Otago Witness. p. 28. Retrieved 18 August 2015.
  • Discussion of an incident where Keogh was sent off in a Dunedin club match; his team departed the field in protest and forfeit the match, and in the process lost the club championship!

-- Shudde ^talk 09:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

• "The Kaikorai Football Club". Otago Witness. 19 September 1889. p. 26. Retrieved 18 August 2015.
  • A history of the Kaikorai Football Club from 1884 to 1889.
• Blue and Gold (9 April 1902). "Football notes". Wairarapa Daily Times. p. 4. Retrieved 18 August 2015.
  • Near the end of the article it says: Most creditably did they uphold the honour of Maoriland. I don't think any New Zealand team could do better than they did. One thing is certain – a New Zealand team will be a long time before they ever have such a flying half-back as 'Pat' Keogh, of Dunedin, whom the English footballers and critics considered the best half they had ever seen. Aye, even the redoubtable 'Jimmy' Duncan could not compare with the famous 'Pat,' and it will, I think, be many a long day before Maoriland possesses such a crack half-back as the old Kaikorai player.
• "Rugby football: Present and past – The decline in back play". The Sun. Christchurch. 22 September 1917. p. 2. Retrieved 18 August 2015.
  • From the article Keogh, the old Otago representative of a quarter of a century ago, and a member of Warbrick's Native team that visited England in the eighties, was probably the greatest half-back the Rugby world has ever produced. His success was due entirely to his versatility in methods. Neither opponents nor spectators knew what he was going to do next. He was the first player to bounce the ball on tbe head of an opponent on a line-out, catch it, and streak down the field. He was an adept in kneeing the ball over the head of an opposing player; he feinted, he hurdled, he kicked; his play was never the same two minutes together.

-- Shudde ^talk 11:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

• "Otago Rugby Football Union". Otago Daily Times. 3 June 1891. p. 3. Retrieved 19 August 2015.
  • Might be a bit too WP:PRIMARY for me, but is a report of the ORFU branding Keogh a 'professional' and banning him from the game.
  • "Football – Otago Rugby Union". Otago Daily Times. 15 May 1891. p. 4. Retrieved 19 August 2015.
    • More but less useful.

- Shudde ^talk 04:13, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

• [2] -- from Google books. Secondary source on his ban for gambling. -- Shudde ^talk 04:22, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
• [3] this time from Jimmy Duncan (rugby union) in 1909. -- Shudde ^talk 10:19, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Against British Isles in 1888

Keogh's obituary says that he played three matches for Otago against the 1888 British Isles teams, but other sources don't back this up. Looks like he in fact missed the first match due to injury, and in the third match he can't have even been in New Zealand, as the Natives had departed New Zealand by early August. -- Shudde ^talk 23:44, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Patrick Keogh/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kaiser matias (talk · contribs) 23:02, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Give me a day or two to properly go over this. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:02, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I'll note I'm not overtly familiar with rugby, but reading the article I found nothing that was too confusing or overtly full or jargon, or otherwise linked, which is good.

• "The final team consisted of 26 players and toured New Zealand before departing to Melbourne, although Keogh was the last to join, and actually played for Otago against the team prior to their departure." The note about Keogh being the last to join reads really awkwardly here, and considering the preceding paragraph notes he was the last "pakeha" to join the team, I feel the two things (while I realize they aren't exactly the same) could be merged someone just for smoother reading.
• "... played in at least 60 of the side's 74 matches in the British Isles. The schedule was grueling, with the 74 matches played in only 175 days." The repetition of 74 matches here should be fixed.
• "The tour was not without controversy for Keogh, on the Queensland leg of the tour, and playing against the state side, Keogh, along with a number of other players, were accused of "playing stiff"—intentionally playing to lose. Don't need to repeat Keogh's name here again, and could do with a semi-colon after the first use of his name to break up the run-on sentence.
• "Keogh had played in at least 70 of the 107 matches on tour, including at least 60 in the British Isles, and 9 in Australia." It's already noted prior that he played at least 60 matches in Britain, so don't need to repeat it.
• Other than those minor writing aspects, the article is good. Like that there are some contemporary sources used as well as what looks like reputable publications. Really interesting article, and once the above are cleared up I'll give it a pass. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:27, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

@Kaiser matias: Hey. Thanks for your review, I really appreciate it. I've been hectically busy lately so I was wondering if you'd mind if I wait until the weekend to address your comments. I'd like to address them properly and it'll hopefully only take me 30 minutes, but I just can't find the time until then. Hopefully this suits you. Thanks. -- Shudde ^talk 21:01, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Hey no worries, just let me know when you get to it; would hate to fail it for something like that. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:56, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

@Kaiser matias: Hey. I think I've addressed your comments (and ahead of schedule!). Hopefully you're happy with the changes, but if you have any problems do let me know. Thanks. -- Shudde ^talk 18:42, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Looks good, a well-written article. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:34, 2 March 2017 (UTC)