Talk:Patricia Banks Edmiston

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet (talk) 03:03, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that Patricia Banks-Edmiston, the first black flight attendant for Capital Airlines (now United Airlines), was told when she applied that "the company didn't hire black people in flight capacities"? Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/patricia-noisette-banks-edmiston-reflects-on-being-one-of-the-first-black-commercial-airline-flight-attendants/
  • ALT1: ... that Patricia Banks-Edmiston was prevented from becoming a flight attendant in the United States during the 1950s because she was black? Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=vK3HM7n070YC&vq=Edmiston
  • Reviewed: N/A

Created by FormalDude (talk). Self-nominated at 21:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Patricia Banks-Edmiston; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• New enough and long enough. Nominator is QPQ-exempt (this is their fifth nomination, so this is the last exempt nomination). Hook fact checks out. No textual issues. I also recently saw the Vox video featuring Patricia, which probably led to this article too. Good stuff. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:00, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Women in Green mini-review

From the request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Green/20-Minute Article Assessments. I'll make notes against each of the Wikipedia:Good article criteria. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:52, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Copyvio check: In my opinion, the level of similarity with The History Makers source is unacceptable, unless there is a suitable explanation such as that site taking content from Wikipedia. (See https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&oldid=1179595926&action=compare&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thehistorymakers.org%2Fbiography%2Fpatricia-banks-edmiston). Some of the phrases are fine per WP:LIMITED but the rest needs to be rewritten in line with Wikipedia:Plagiarism; also see Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing.

1. Well-written.

• "one of the first black individuals in the flight attendant profession" - how about something like "one of the first black flight attendants"?
  •  Done
• The lead is very short. Consider adding something from "After 1961"
  •  Done
• "They also stated that they do not hire in New York", "they submitted that they do not discriminate" - shouldn't these be in past tense?
  • They are in past tense (stated, submitted). These were things they said in the past about what they were doing at the time. If I changed to to "They submitted that they did not discriminate" I do not think it would be accurate as they weren't claiming at that time that they previously did not discriminate, they were claiming at the time that they currently do not discriminate. Hopefully that makes sense.
• "has been honored by the Smithsonian" - if possible, expand on the nature and timing of this honour (and, again if possible, add the year for her induction into the Black Aviation Hall of Fame)
  •  Done, still looking for more on the Smithsonian.
• Expect some suggestions for prose improvements from the GA reviewer. I've mentioned a couple above.

2. Verifiable with no original research.

• I haven't checked the text against sources.
• Sources appear to be of suitable quality. A quick search didn;t find any significant other sources.

3. Broad in its coverage and 4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.

• No red flags from the current text, but I've only briefly looked over sources.

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

• No issues.

6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio

• I assume no suitable free-to-use images of Banks Edmiston are available.
  • Correct, and because she is a living person I am unable to use one under fair use.
• Licence for the advert image seems fine. I'd suggest adding to the caption to explain its relevance.
  •  Done

BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:52, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on the article FormalDude. Obviously the similarity with The History Makers source needs to be addressed. I'm happy to take another look after that. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:56, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, BennyOnTheLoose! I've implemented everything you mentioned except for one, which I've explained above. Thank you very much for catching the potential copyvio issue with The History Makers–that was the only part of the article I didn't write, but obviously I should've reviewed it further. I reworded it as a best as possible, I think it is now compliant. ––FormalDude (talk) 21:41, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

@BennyOnTheLoose: I would appreciate another look if you have time. I did add some additional content since your mini-review. ––FormalDude (talk) 01:11, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

@FormalDude: The changes look good. There's a fairly high similarity match with a CBS News site that you could review, but it looks like most or of that is arguably acceptable either as the direct attributed quote, or per WP:LIMITED. (Same for the History Makers site, now.) A reviewer might question whether the images meet MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE. In my opinion, with the caveat that I haven't checked sources, the article is ready to be nominated as a GA. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:24, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Patricia Banks Edmiston/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien (talk · contribs) 15:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

I'll get this reviewed some time today. Hopefully we can get all of the Women in Green nominations reviewed before the event ends. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

FormalDude, the review is posted below. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Well-written

• Uppercase Black, lowercase black, and African American are all fine, but the article should be consistent in which one is used.
  •  Done
• Is her surname Edmiston or Banks Edmiston? This should also be consistent.
  • It's Banks Edmiston, but some sources use just Edmiston after introducing her full name. I changed all occurrences to Banks Edmiston.
• She actively combated – "actively" doesn't add anything here.
  •  Done
• paving the way – Avoid idioms
  •  Done
• after seeking advice from Adam Clayton Powell Jr. – The reader should have a general idea of who this is and why he was involved without clicking the link.
  •  Done
• The second paragraph under "legal complaint" doesn't really flow, and it reads more like a list of facts.
  •  Done
• as "they have 570 employed hostesses and not one is a Negro," in fact none of the airline's 1,350 persons employed in a flight capacity were – Is there a conjunction missing here? It might be best to rewrite this sentence.
  •  Done
• On May 6th, 1960 – Avoid ordinals in dates.
  •  Done
• The last paragraph under "legal complaint" doesn't use her name at all. It just says "she" throughout.
  •  Done
• Beginning in 1970, Banks Edmiston served as a counselor at New York City's Addicts Rehabilitation Center until 1972 – "Beginning in" and "until" are mismatched.
  •  Done
• Emidston also dedicated her expertise as a member of the board of directors for the Black Flight Attendants of America. – I'm not sure what this is trying to say. Does her expertise mean her experience with the legal challenge?
  • Yes.
• Edmiston practiced Shotokan and is a black belt holder – Is this supposed to be past tense and then present tense?
  • Yes, but I reworded for clarity.

Verifiable with no original research

Spot checks:

• Westbrook (2023): Y
• Brooks (2023):
  • Close paraphrasing: The article says similar to other Black women at the time, encountered consistent rejections. The source says similar to other Black women in her predicament, faced rejection from them all.
    • Should be permissible per WP:LIMITED.
  • Close paraphrasing: The article says Edmiston remembered facing violent threats following the verdict and had to seek law enforcement assistance to safeguard her well-being. The source says Banks-Edmiston recalled that she received threats of violence in letters after the ruling and needed protection from law enforcement to ensure her safety.
    • I don't believe that constitutes close paraphrasing, but even so, should be covered by WP:LIMITED.
  • Close paraphrasing: The article says he pressure of needing to maintain a flawless record in order to preserve future prospects for other Black flight attendants, combined with the racial discrimination she encountered while flying in the Southern United States, exacted a significant emotional toll on Edmiston. The source says the constant pressure of having to be infallible so as to not ruin future opportunities for other aspiring Black stewardesses, coupled with the racism she experienced flying through the South, took a great emotional toll on her. She resigned a year later in order to further pursue her education
    • WP:LIMITED
• Barry (2007): Y
• Ithaca Journal (1960): Y
• New York Age (1959): Y

Broad in its coverage

• No information about her early life? Cole (2018) mentions a few things like where she was born.
  •  Added
• Westbrook (2023) talks a little about her education, which is mostly omitted in the article.
  •  Added
• Are there any sources mentioning anything she did 1961–1970?
  • None that I could find.

Neutral

No issues.

Stable

No recent disputes.

Illustrated

Both images are public domain and suitably captioned.

• @Thebiguglyalien: Thank you very much for the review! I've responded to all your comments above. ––FormalDude (talk) 01:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  FormalDude, looks pretty good overall, though I don't believe that WP:LIMITED applies here. My understanding is that it's for the simplest things like names and dates. Right now the text gives the impression that it was copied into the article and then the words were swapped for synonyms. The presentation in the article should be entirely independent from that of the source. If we disagree about whether this is close paraphrasing, we can always get a third opinion. One other note, the new "early life" section is very small. Could this be rearranged? It's common to combine "early life and education" if that's the approach you want to take. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 02:21, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  @Thebiguglyalien: I'm willing to work with you on the close paraphrasing, how do these alternatives look?

  1. similar to other Black women in her predicament, faced rejection from them all → However, she encountered consistent rejections, which was not uncommon for Black women in similar positions at the time.
  2. Banks-Edmiston recalled that she received threats of violence in letters after the ruling and needed protection from law enforcement to ensure her safety → Edmiston had to seek law enforcement assistance to safeguard her well-being after facing violent threats following the verdict of her case.
  3. the constant pressure of having to be infallible so as to not ruin future opportunities for other aspiring Black stewardesses, coupled with the racism she experienced flying through the South, took a great emotional toll on her. She resigned a year later in order to further pursue her education → The stress of experiencing racial discrimination while flying in the Southern United States took a toll on Edmiston. This, along with the pressure she felt to maintain a flawless record in order to preserve future prospects for other Black flight attendants, caused Edmiston to resign from Capital Airlines in 1961.

  As for the early life sections, those are frequently short, but I'm not opposed to rearranging, just not sure of the best way to do so. It could be combined with the next section, but then we'd have either an early life and education section that's only two sentences longer than the current early life section, or we'd have a section titled Early life, education, and career. I'm not sure if either of those are preferable to what we have now, let me know what you think. Maybe you have a better idea for restructuring. ––FormalDude (talk) 03:05, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  FormalDude: Yes, those all look good to me. For reorganizing, there are a few ways that it could be done; it's not a major issue, so I'm not too worried about it. A short "early life and education" section would still be an improvement. Alternatively, "legal complaint" and "after 1961" could be bumped up to level-2 headings, and then everything above "legal complaint" could be one section. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 03:16, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  @Thebiguglyalien: Done! Thanks again for the review. Let me know if you have anything else. ––FormalDude (talk) 04:13, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.