Talk:Panthera (Jesus's father)

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Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was Merge. After being proposed for eight months and with 35 days since the last comment, it is clear that there is no substantial objection to the merger. The only point of opposition seems to have been addressed by ensuring WP:FRINGE applies. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:14, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I propose to merge this article Panthera (Jesus's father) into Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera. The former was created into 2020 and the latter in 2006. I believe the subject of both articles is identical and this should be non-controversial. patsw (talk) 23:32, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I was just thinking that when I found that both articles exist. —Kodiologist (t) 13:20, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kodiologist and Patsw: Absolutely not. Abdes is a historical person while "Panthera, father of Jesus" is a most likely entirely fictional figure invented by a Hellenistic writer to discredit Christians, this figure was at most inspired by the fact that Panthera was a common Roman soldiers name in the region and the fact that the name occurs a few times in New Testament texts. Abdes mainly gained noteriety becase people noted his common name with the mythical Panthera and the Biblical names but there is no proof that Abdes is the Panthera of Celsus' text or directly inspired him.★Trekker (talk) 13:49, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Panthera (Jesus's father) was split from Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera in September 2020. I think merging them back together is a sensible idea; Abdes Pantera (or rather, his tombstone) is only notable because of the Jesus connection. The tombstone would be utterly unremarkable otherwise, so there's no reason to have a standalone article for it. I'd suggest moving the relevant content from Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera into a section of this article. (Note: There's a parallel discussion at the other talk page.) Dan from A.P. (talk) 19:36, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per Dan. The two are not necessarily one and the same, but one is notable only through his connection to the other. In fact, most of the soldier's article is about this possible connection. Very little is known about the person otherwise. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:11, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point. As long as its made very clear that Abdes is not actually accepted as being the religious figure by historians.★Trekker (talk) 10:01, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.