Talk:Pangaltı

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Anachronological

Re-inventing 19th Century Istanbul with sources on the 19th Century neighbourhood with "present tense" (Is instead of Was) for irredentist POV. Delete this article. --E4024 (talk) 22:20, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree with that. I live in Şişli, and there is a sub-district (semt in Turkish) called Pangaltı.--Rapsar (talk) 14:55, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If so, delete the "Pancaldi" from the infobox; it looks like we are both from the 21st Century Istanbul... --E4024 (talk) 17:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, and removed Pancaldi from the infobox.--Rapsar (talk) 19:05, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Still the text is problematic. Relying on 19th Century sources it claims the place is "inhabited mainly by Levantine Christians" (sic). The only Christians that I know to live in that part of Istanbul are some Turkish Armenians and maybe (a big maybe) several Greeks of Turkey. I doubt these people are considered Levantine Christians because they are indigenous people of Istanbul. (The Greeks were already there as Romans and the Armenians were brought in by Mehmed II in the 1450s.) Independently from the foregoing, it is a clearly known fact that the population of not even one semt (quarter) of Şişli or any other district of Istanbul is not mainly Christian. (If someone brings an RS to the contrary we will use that fact in WP; if not, based on 19th Century -or Ottoman- data we cannot write an article about a place in the final days of 2012.) For the moment I am adding a "citation needed" tag not to be misunderstood as if I were looking for an edit war. However, if a contemporary RS is not placed rather quickly I will remove that baseless claim. --E4024 (talk) 20:48, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

E4024, please read more carefully "was" is past tense. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any issue here. It's in an historical section and written in the past tense. FiachraByrne (talk) 12:31, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the page history you do... --E4024 (talk) 22:31, 1 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request

While I am hoping this article to be deleted, please change the ridiculous Turkey map from infobox; leave aside the country, this so-called place without borders (as it is neither a district nor a municipality) is not even a dot in the city of Istanbul. Better use a map or plan of Şişli district where maybe we can see the quarter or neighbourhood. --E4024 (talk) 00:05, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I added a map of Şişli.--Rapsar (talk) 14:57, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. There are no "sub-districts" in Istanbul or in the whole of Turkey. In Turkish administration (even without considering the latest legislation that is practically eliminating villages), there are no administrative sub-sections under a district in urban areas. Socially and with very few and mostly symbolic powers (or "so-called" powers; because giving a person a sealed paper showing that s/he lives in that neighborhood is not exactly a "power") we have "mahalles" and totally socially (not to say "arbitrarily" we call "semt" sometimes a few inter-related mahalles all together. The former (mahalle) is "neighbourhood" in English and "semt" is "quarter". Please replace "sub-district" with one of these because I do not want to look implied in an edit war, emanating from the lack of knowledge of the basic facts of a place about which we are making an article here. Thanks for the understanding. --E4024 (talk) 19:59, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Semts in Turkey have not any legal status. They are like "small cultural populated places" :)--Rapsar (talk) 20:25, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Rapsar. The correct translation of semt, in 19th Century context, is probably "quarter", not "sub-district." Your input is appreciated. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources

I do not see even one in this article. Please responsible editors intervene. --E4024 (talk) 00:26, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The creator of the article came to my talk page and requested that I look at the article and, more specifically, your conduct. First, tagging the article as a G1 was wholly inappropriate. If you don't understand the speedy deletion criteria, don't tag articles. Second, your edit summaries on the article border on the uncivil. Third, you shouldn't be making RfCs without first discussing the problems you perceive on the article talk page. If subsequently an RfC is warranted, it should be accompanied by a "brief, neutral statement of the issue". Yours are hardly that. Finally, when an editor reverts you, don't revert back without first coming to the article talk page to discuss the issue (WP:BRD).--Bbb23 (talk) 02:33, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Bbb23. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redlink

Help please. I cannot identify this 1866 Armenian church Anarad Hiğutyun Ermeni Katholik Kilisesi in Pangalti among Category:Churches in Istanbul. Is it there under another name, or does it simply not have an article? In ictu oculi (talk) 01:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It has not an article in here nor any Wikipedia. I don't think it is a notable church, so it is better to not give a WL to that.--Rapsar (talk) 10:36, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

tr:Pangaltı,Şişli

If you read the "Harbiye" article you linked from TR:WP you will see that it is not part of this but another quarter. The other link is about a quarter, not a station; and also from TR! Please...) E4024

Yes I know. Yes I know (see the tr.wp article, and picture of the Station). Please tone down your language. Now you are welcome to help translate the tr.wp lede:

Pangaltı, tr:İstanbul'un tr:Avrupa Yakası'nda bulunan Şişli ilçesinde bir semttir. Bir semt olduğundan kesin sınırları çizilememekle birlikte, idari olarak Halaskargazi, Bozkurt ve Cumhuriyet mahallelerinin kestiği alana yayıldığı söylenebilir. Şişli merkezin ana aksını oluşturan tr:Halaskargazi Caddesi üzerinde; Osmanbey ve Harbiye semtleri arasında bulunur.

Here is the text from the tr.wp article. E4024 how do you propose to incorporate Osmanbey and Harbiye into links in the lede of this article? In ictu oculi (talk) 02:04, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Osmanbey article is already opened by Rapsar. Rapsar, as you live in the area -and know much better than me how to do it- could you also open a Harbiye stub in this WP? No hurry, whenever you can. Thanks in advance. --E4024 (talk) 11:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No problem :)--Rapsar (talk) 11:20, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Uy, that was real quick! Thanks... --E4024 (talk) 11:28, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Raspar, that was real quick. E4024 are we good now? In ictu oculi (talk) 14:04, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Christian cemeteries in Taksim were moved to Şişli"

"As part of the 1860s redevelopment of Istanbul, The Christian cemeteries in Taksim were moved to Şişli, when the avenue between Taksim and Pangaltı was under construction in 1864." This sentence has nothing to do with this article, as it is neither an article on Taksim nor about the Christian cemeteries in Istanbul. If I do not remove it that is because I do not want to look like I am edit fighting with a user very enthusiastic about some issues. --E4024 (talk) 12:32, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello E4204

(1) What does "with a user very enthusiastic about some issues" mean exactly? Would you please expand on this personal comment and tell me what issues you consider I am "enthusiastic" about? Are you accusing me of some kind of pro-Armenian bias?

(2) As regards the ref I've expanded it, but if you are suggesting "Christian cemeteries in Taksim were moved to Şişli" has nothing to do with Pangaltı, are you saying they were moved to another quarter of Şişli different from Pangaltı. Which quarter is that? In ictu oculi (talk) 07:26, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't accuse you of any bias. What Armenian BTW? Here also? Is this the Armenian WP? We have "Armenian" in every thing; from Pomegranate to Turkish coffee articles: "This coffee is called Armenian coffee in Armenia", "Armenians were the first people to discover the seeds inside a pomegranate" :-) etc. I will go and see if the Turkish tea and Turkish delight articles have any Armenian references like "Armenians call this tea Armenian tea" or "Turkish delights are referred to as Armenian delights in Armenia (and the Armenian diaspora :-) and the Armenians like to eat them in company of a cup of Armenian coffee..." --E4024 (talk) 12:17, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(1) okay

(2) If you are suggesting "Christian cemeteries in Taksim were moved to Şişli" has nothing to do with Pangaltı, are you saying they were moved to another quarter of Şişli different from Pangaltı? In ictu oculi (talk) 15:22, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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