Talk:Panagiotis Efstratiadis/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 13:06, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this on. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 14:48, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Constantine: are you still good to give this one a look? UndercoverClassicist (talk) 19:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi UndercoverClassicist, am down with a nasty viral infection, but slowly on the mend. Hope to be able to tackle this soon. Constantine ✍ 12:30, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh dear! Please, take your time: I only wanted to give you a nudge in case this had dropped off your radar. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 12:56, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

   b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   b. (citations to reliable sources):

   c. (OR):

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   b. (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed) Will take this on, but it will be a few days before I get to it. Constantine ✍ 13:06, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Lede

• Perhaps clarify that Lesbos was part of the Ottoman Empire? He was born an Ottoman subject.
  • Done (now in lead as well as infobox and body). UndercoverClassicist (talk) 09:07, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
• known as the 'Old Style' within Greece that is incorrect: "Old Style" is the English term for the old calendar. In Greece, there is usually no distinction made: most historical sources that deal with Greek matters will simply use the Julian dates, without even noting that there is a discrepancy to the 'international' calendar; it is assumed as known by the reader.
  • Fair point; removed "within Greece". UndercoverClassicist (talk) 08:50, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Early life and career

• Why is the date 1815 to be preferred over that given by Skokos?
  • It's much more widely used (and it's used by Petrakos, who is really the ultimate authority on all things to do with the Archaeological Society and Service): I'll find and add some more citations to make that more obvious. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 08:30, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
    • Now done. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 18:25, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
• between 1834 and 1836 does this refer to Ross' tenure as Ephor General, or to Efstratiadis' period of studies?
  • Clarified UndercoverClassicist (talk) 12:22, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
• A brief explanation of what the Corpus Inscriptionum Graecarum is?
  • Done briefly: perhaps could be better. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 16:12, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Archaeological Society of Athens

• Are the conversion rates from 1868 (!) still reliable?
  • I think so; the source gives conversions into 1868 British pounds, and then I converted those into modern Euros using the inflation template. I don't really have another good "frame of reference" source for the value of that much money in the period: the other figure I use a lot in these articles is the E-G's monthly salary of 350 drachmae, but that's not very helpful at this scale. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 08:01, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Ephor General of Antiquities

• I'd recommend removing the dates from the section title, unless you add them to all sections
  • Thinking a bit on this one: I don't have a hugely strong opinion either way, but this is the only section with such clear chronological boundaries (and boundaries which are imposed by the material, rather than editorial choice), so there might be an argument for treating it slightly differently. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 09:31, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
    • I get what you are saying, but the structure of the article appears to be thematic rather than chronological (among other reasons, the 'Archaeological Society of Athens' section clearly overlaps with his teaching activity mentioned in 'Early life and career'). Having dates in the title implie otherwise, however. Constantine ✍ 11:36, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

      Yes, that's a reasonable point. I've taken the date out. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 12:26, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

• It may be unclear to the average reader why the Frankish Tower was 'foreign'. Perhaps a bit of context would help here. It is also mentioned that its demolition was controversial, but no details are given.
  • I've expanded a bit (in parallel with expanding the main article): I think the Ephor General section could now do with subdivision, but not sure how best to do that. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 11:43, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
    • Hmmm, perhaps, but it would be rather small subtopics; I have no problem with leaving it as is. Constantine ✍ 17:28, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
• the Central Museum perhaps add its modern name as well?
  • Done in EFN. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 14:49, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
• Is Rhousopoulos transliterated like this in non-Greek sources?
  • Yes: I don't really understand why, but it is almost universal (see especially Galanakis' many articles, cited in Rhousoupoulos' article).

Personal life

• following an anti-German coup in 1843 describing the revolt of 3 September as an 'anti-German coup' is both very simplistic and inaccurate and likely confusing to a reader (why would there need to be an anti-German coup in Greece?). I would recommend simply naming the uprising by its article title.
  • I think this one might be better expanded and explained: it matters that the 3 September Revolution was very opposed to the Bavarokratia, because Ross was (complicatedly) German: he's kicked out as a direct consequence/collateral damage of Otto having to respond to public anger by addressing the fact that prestigious positions in Greece were so often held by Germans. If we just put the name of the coup in, it's not obvious why a coup against the king would have led to the sacking of an epigrapher. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 08:01, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
    • More context would definitely be the preferred option. Although the anti-Bavarocracy aspect is but one of the reasons why the coup was launched (hence I am leery of over-simplifying it to simply that point). Something to the point that the coup ousted many German officials who had come into the country with its first king, Otto, and replaced them with Greeks should IMO suffice. Constantine ✍ 12:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

      I've slightly expanded to that effect (and slightly ducked the German question by talking about "Ross and his fellow northern Europeans", as the coup also sent home pretty much the entire contingent of Danish artists and archaeologists in Greece). UndercoverClassicist (talk) 13:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Honours and legacy

• the highest award of the Greek honours system well, until 1915 the Redeemer was also the only award of the Greek honours system, so this is redundant.
  • Ah, I didn't know that! Is there anything we can say about the level of prestige it held?
    • Perhaps simply, 'Greece's national order of merit'? Constantine ✍ 12:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
      • Great shout: done. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 12:27, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@UndercoverClassicist: excellent work, as usual. Did not find a lot to complain about, at least for GA level. Should be good to go once the issues above are taken care of. Constantine ✍ 07:51, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

• Thank you (and for the copyedit): as ever, very sensible points. I think I've quibbled everything I'm going to: things are a bit busy over the next few days, but all well taken and I'll work through them as I can. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 08:29, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
  • @UndercoverClassicist: sorry for the delay. I have had another look, and am (more than) satisfied with the changes. Very pleased to pass this now, well done! Constantine ✍ 17:28, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.