Talk:Pan Fusheng

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pan Fusheng/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Rationalobserver (talk · contribs) 17:27, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Lead

• but was rehabilitated after the period

This is wordy, so reword; maybe: "but was later rehabilitated"

 Done.

• embraced the rebel Red Guards movement, and gained the support of Mao

I think this comma is superfluous.

 Done.

• the Communist Party of China posthumously criticized him for committing "serious mistakes" during the Cultural Revolution.

Per WP:LEADCITE this quoted fragment needs a citation. Alternatively, you could paraphrase to avoid having a cite in the lead.

 Done.

Republic of China

• He excelled in school, and taught in an elementary school for five years.

This seems to come out of nowhere, and it sounds like he taught elementary school when he was still a student. Please clarify.

 Done added more details from sources.

• in capital Nanjing

Try: "in the capital, Nanjing"

 Done.

• No. 1

This is acceptable, and it's much better than #1, but consider writing these out as, "number one".

 Done.

Early PRC

• Looks good.

Great Leap Forward

• During the 9th plenum

I'm not sure the average reader will know what a plenum is, so clarify or link.

 Done added a link to article.

• work as a labourer on a farm

This is the BrEng version of labor, which is fine as long as your English variation is consistent throughout.

 Done changed to "laborer".

Cultural Revolution

• Province in Northeast China, and Political Commissar

Omit this comma, which is superfluous.

 Done.

• and Heilongjiang became the first province to set up a revolutionary committee, on 31 January 1967.

This could be smoother, maybe: "and on 31 January 1967, Heilongjiang became the first province to set up a revolutionary committee."

 Done.

• only three provincial party chiefs in the country to have 'transformed' from an incumbent provincial First Secretary

If you really want to have this word in quotes, it should be double, not single, but it would be even better if you avoided a one-word quote such as this.

 Done the quotes were added by another user, which I didn't notice.

• overthrown through 'power seizures' by radicals

See above

 Done ditto.

• after the establishment of the revolutionary committee, however, a faction opposing Pan emerged

You should have a semi-colon preceding however.

I don't think the comma should be changed to a semi-colon here, as "however" connects two parts of the same sentence. Please reconsider.

Death

• This is a bit brief for its own section, but if there aren't any other notable details I suppose it's fine.

The Chinese government is extremely sensitive about the Cultural Revolution and the subsequent investigations. I could not find any details about his investigation and later life (presumably spent in custody), except for a brief statement saying he committed "serious mistakes".

Sourcing

Looks good!

Conclusion

I think the article is well-written, verifiable, neutral, and stable. The coverage isn't especially broad, but maybe that's due to limited sourcing, so make certain you haven't overlooked any good sources. Per WP:GACR number 6, it would be nice to have at least one image if at all possible.

@Rationalobserver: Thanks for your review. As the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution are sensitive issues in China, most Chinese sources about the period are formulaic and without many key details (I've been unable to even find a credible photograph of him from any reliable website), or even contradictory. I've written most of the article based on information gleaned from English sources, but Western research tends to focus on the central government, not the provincial leaders. So unfortunately I've been unable to find more detailed information about his life, especially the investigation after his dismissal. -Zanhe (talk) 00:00, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Okay. I'm going to ask for a second opinion. Thanks for your patience. Rationalobserver (talk) 16:00, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

@Rationalobserver: I believe this can be passed if you are happy that the other criteria have been met. GAs should be illustrated if possible. I don't see any images on Flickr or other sites that we can use. I don't even know who we could contact to see if they have an image to put through the OTRS process.

Sometimes I like to add quote boxes when images aren't available to support the text and break it up a bit. I don't think this is necessarily appropriate for the prose here.

Nothing wrong with seeking a second opinion, Rationalobserver, and nice work, Zanhe.Cptnono (talk) 00:22, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Cptnono! Per above, I'm closing this as passed! Rationalobserver (talk) 17:58, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

big character posters

"In October 1958, the Communist Party calculated that some 1.6 billion big-character posters denouncing them had been written." - This does not seem plausible, as 1.6 billion means every man, woman, and child in the province would have written over 2,000 posters each denouncing Pan and his associates. Perhaps 1.6 million is the actual number? Colipon+(Talk) 18:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

I had same first reaction when I was reading Yang Jisheng's book. However, it's clear from the context that Pan Fusheng was denounced nationally, and 1.6 billion was likely the national total, not just for Henan. By the way, your math was way off. If all of the 1.6 billion posters had been written in Henan, it would be about 20 posters per person (over a period of 4 months), not 2000. 1.6 million would be 0.02 per person, far too low a figure to be plausible. -Zanhe (talk) 01:09, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

You are right, I don't even remember how I did my math, but it was clearly wrong. I will give the benefit of doubt to the source. Colipon+(Talk) 02:35, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Some comments

User:Zanhe:

1. When did he changed his name to "Pan Fusheng"? Have you even realised that he changed his surname?
2. You should indicate in the section title that it is "Republic of China (1912–49)", because the regime continued its rule in Taiwan after being defeated in the civil war.

--HYH.124 (talk) 06:42, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

1. Also, at that time in China, there were junior elementary school (初級小学) and senior elementary school (高级小学), which were different schools, just like the system of junior and senior high schools still in use now. Pan studied in Wendeng County Senior Elementary School (文登县立高级小学), but he later taught in a rural junior elementary school. Please get the facts right.

HYH.124 (talk) 07:47, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

@HYH.124: Thanks for your comments. Please note that although I'm the main author of the article, I do not WP:OWN it. If you feel the article can be improved in any way, go ahead and make the changes, as long as they are neutral and supported by reliable sources. Of course I realize his surname was changed (his original full name is included in the article), and I don't understand what's the purpose of your question. Don't know when he changed his name. Please note that I'm busy lately and may not be able to reply to you promptly. -Zanhe (talk) 04:02, 17 March 2015 (UTC)