Talk:Pan Celtic Festival

References

References required. Sarah777 (talk) 17:50, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

@Sarah777: references found, and article extensively expanded including event logo. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 00:06, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks - attention tag removed. Sarah777 (talk) 19:31, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Eurovision?

Why exactly is this article under the scope of WikiProject Eurovision at all, let alone classed as top-importance? —烏Γ ^(kaw), 19:11, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

@KarasuGamma: despite the 'Eurovision' in WikiProject Eurovision, we don't just deal with Eurovision-only contests. The project description at WP:ESC states "The WikiProject Eurovision was called into existence on 13 September 2003. From that moment onwards, this project group has assembled Wikipedians who are dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to the Eurovision Network, and other topics similar to but not necessarily identical to the Eurovision event concept." Other contests under our scope include ABU Song Festivals, Türkvizyon Song Contest, Cân i Gymru, and many more. Even Eurovision news websites publish content about all the same contests that have ended falling under our scope. So to summarise, we're not just Eurovision, but more "song contest" orientated. Perhaps having a look through all of the tabs on the project space would be a good idea, to help you become familiar with the project and also the assessment classifications. Wes Mouse ✒ 16:50, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

@Wesley Mouse: I already knew that much; it just didn't seem like there was any inherent relationship between the project scope and this particular contest. The articles on the others all mention some level of either organization by EBU people or inspiration from the ESC, which is why I left those alone; even here, I didn't touch the rating, only asked. The clarification helps; it just seems odd at first. —烏Γ ^(kaw), 18:48, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

@KarasuGamma: I can see the confusion, yes. The festival is basically a Celtic version of Eurovision, for Celtic-speaking regions; similar to Bundesvision Song Contest is for Germany; ABU Song Festivals for the ABU region; and Türkvizyon Song Contest for the Turkic region. It may be also worth pointing out that the Cân i Gymru - the Welsh version of Eurovision, and would be used to select the entry for Wales should they participate as an independent nation - is also connected with this very contest. It probably does look strange that a Eurovision project should go beyond Eurovision itself; but then Eurovision alone goes beyond Europe, despite the 'Euro' in the title. Things evolve, as does the project alas. I had proposed in the past that the project needs reform now that its scope is wider; perhaps rebranding as 'WikiProject Song Contests'; and then create a task force for the various genre of contests, such as Europe, Junior, Turkic, etc. Wes Mouse ✒ 19:12, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pan Celtic Festival/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Johanna (talk · contribs) 03:43, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Second on my "to review" list. Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)^{talk to me!}_{see my work} 03:43, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Comments

@Wesley Mouse: Here are some comments:

Lead

• Link to celtic nations.
• Do you really need a link to further down in the page?
• Is it actually "Isle of Man are" or "Isle of Man is"? I don't know.

1. Linked. Wes Mouse ✒
2. Unlinked. Wes Mouse ✒
3. Changed to "is". Wes Mouse ✒

Origins and history

• Should not be a semicolon after "County Kerry, Ireland"--should be a comma instead.
• What is the site that this entire section is cited to and why is it a reliable source?

1. Comma removed. Wes Mouse ✒
2. There are several sites for the festival, for each of the nations. That one used is for the Welsh region and was the only one to contain any history and origins information. Wes Mouse ✒

Participation

• "is for Celtic nations which are…" comma between "nations" and "which"
• I think you just need one cite to that source in the table--three is a bit overkill in my opinion.
• Even though I admire your French tendencies, there probably shouldn't be an accent over debut. :)

1. Comma added. Wes Mouse ✒
2. Citations removed. Wes Mouse ✒
3. Actually the correct spelling uses the accent. Even now as I look at your text, my spell-checker has underlined your version in red, telling me that it is incorrectly spelt. British English appears to have adopted the accent version. Even Wiktionary advises on using the accent. Wes Mouse ✒ 09:27, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

National selections

• If possible, could you put a paragraph giving a general overview of national selections? I found it a bit confusing when it just jumped right in.
• "This annual festival takes place in the heart of the city" informal and vague
• A couple consistency things: first, use similar terms when introducing each one, as it doesn't feel right if you start the Wales one with that it's a TV show.
• Also, for some of the countries, you only discuss the most recent selections, and in otters, you only talk about the first ones. If you could do both, that would be great, but be consistent no matter what you choose to do.

1. I could add an overview paragraph. But then it would violate original research, as there are no available citations to verify such written overview content. Any suggestions? Wes Mouse ✒
2. Reworded section. Wes Mouse ✒
3. The Welsh selection is the only national selection to be televised. The other nations do not televise their selection shows. Wes Mouse ✒
4. Again, I can only write about selections that are verifiable by citations. So not all of them will be consistent. If I were to attempt such, I would be in breach of original research. Wes Mouse ✒

Hostings

• This is not a good title for this section--in fact, it's not even showing up as a word on a dictionary search or when I typed it just now.

1. Title changed to "Festival hosts". Wes Mouse ✒

List of winners

• Remove the Dermot O'Brien file--this is actually a non-free file that's currently only being used in the subject's article and it's saying on the file description page that that's its only use, and I think it should stay that way.

1. Image removed. Wes Mouse ✒

References

• Ref 11 is dead.

1. Archived url added. Wes Mouse ✒

Not too many comments! :) Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)^{talk to me!}_{see my work} 03:38, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

@Johanna: I won't be able to work on the points above as I have recently moved house, and still waiting for my internet provider to reconnect my services at the new property (expected to be October 12). I've only been able to send this via my cellular device, which was difficult in itself. I will make sure that the points are addressed as soon as my services resume. Wes Mouse ✒ 12:14, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

@Johanna: I have acted upon each of your points, and left comments for each of them. Wes Mouse ✒ 09:27, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

@Wesley Mouse: Thanks for your fixes! I can pass now. Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)^{talk to me!}_{see my work} 01:12, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Ireland issues

This article has several issues with it's use of Ireland. The nation doesn't represent the sovereign states, however all the entries for Ireland provide flag of, and links to, the Republic of Ireland. RoI is a sovereign state and doesn't cover all of the island of Ireland which is what's actually being represented. The use of the flag of the Republic of Ireland, and linking to the Republic of Ireland is therefore incorrect and needs to be changed. It's easy to change anyway, especially since most of the links in the article fall afoul of MOS:FLAG anyway, but it will require all the "flag" linkages to be removed. Canterbury Tail talk 01:09, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Since the flag is apparently used to represent the entire island at the contests, I've just remove the incorrect Republic of Ireland links. Shouldn't be linked anyways per Wp:OVERLINK as a common term. Canterbury Tail talk 01:15, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

2005 win

Krena is listed as winning in 2006 - but it was actually 2005 - I know as I was the songwriter and singer. 2A00:23C6:5431:9B01:8442:3B01:667:2B63 (talk) 08:32, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Not only that, but the website of the Welsh branch of the Gwyl Ban-Geltaidd (Pan-Celtic Festival) tells a different story as to the winners between 2001 and 2008. Whilst this page lists no competition for 2001, then lists the winners as Gainor Haf (2002) through to Deirdre Nii (sic) Chinneide in 2008, the Welsh website lists Gainor as winning in 2001, then the others through to Deirdre Ni Chinneide in 2007 and Aled Myrddin in 2008. This reference confirms Aled's win in 2008 https://www.manxmusic.com/media/Newsletters/April2008.pdf and this one Elin Fflur's win in 2002. https://lingo.360.cymru/cylchlythyr/2023/newyddion-wythnos-ebrill-3/ The Cornish language version of this pages follows the Welsh. Brwynog (talk) 00:06, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Movement to 'Pan Celtic International Song Contest'

I believe that this article is misleading. It is titled 'Pan Celtic Festival' and briefly talks about the Pan Celtic Festival as a whole yet the entire article is dedicated to the Pan Celtic International Song Contest which is only a part of the entire festival. The article is also very mismatched in its contents. E.g. Gouelioù Etrekeltiek An Oriant and Am Mòd Nàiseanta Rìoghail are listed as national finals for the Pan Celtic International Song Contest when they have never produced a song for it, they are used as national selections for all the other events in the Pan Celtic Festival, such as the traditional singing and choir contests. I've been doing a lot of research on the history of the contest and have been planning on doing a large edit and clean-up on this article but feel like the actual desired content of the article should be established. I think that there is enough content in the Pan Celtic International Song Contest to justify its own article so I don't believe a solution which puts information about the Pan Celtic International Song Contest as a part of a Pan Celtic Festival article is right. I propose that either the article gets moved to an article called 'Pan Celtic International Song Contest' and the article gets cleaned up to only be about the Pan Celtic International Song Contest. Or I propose that this article gets cleaned up to be about the Pan Celtic Festival and a new article is created for the Pan Celtic International Song Contest. Since the current article is mostly about the Pan Celtic International Song Contest, I think that the former would be easier to implement. Spleennn (talk) 21:58, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I came in here in order to make an oppose as it's clear what they call themselves, however upon reading the above you have a point. A really good point. And I can't think of a reason to oppose it. So yes, Support. Canterbury Tail talk 22:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

For now I have copied the page to Draft:Pan Celtic International Song Contest so that work can be done on the contest until a verdict is reached on this issue. Spleennn (talk) 23:42, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I have no problems separating the two articles. How detailed is your research on the history of the festival? For example there are choir, solo singer and group competitions as well as the Pan-Celtic/Celtavision contest. Presumably the first three would be part of the Festival article. Brwynog (talk) 20:08, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

My research has been almost entirely on the Pan-Celtic Song Contest (Celtavision) and its associated national finals. I have done very little research into the other aspects of the festival. Spleennn (talk) 14:07, 7 May 2024 (UTC)