Talk:Pamela Stephenson/GA1

GA Review

passed Mujinga (talk) 13:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Mujinga (talk · contribs) 21:00, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi BennyOnTheLoose, I came here through a weird series of events sparked by watching the film What We Did on Our Holiday the other day. Looking forward to reviewing this article as part of the August 2023 GAN Backlog Drive!

OK I've put this review on hold, comments bvelow. Overall I guess I'm concerned that references added prior to you revamping the article are hard to verify and may have introduced inconsistencies, so it would be good to talk that through. Mujinga (talk) 14:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've responded to everything; there may well be some follow-ups required. Many thanks for all the improvements you've identified, Mujinga. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:00, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@BennyOnTheLoose nice work! I've replied to things and I think the only three queries now stopping this becoming a GA are about the pesky Buddhist sentence, the NTNON sketch and How To Be A Complete Bitch Mujinga (talk) 13:09, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mujinga I've had another go at those points. Thanks again for all the advice. 14:43, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats on another good article! Mujinga (talk) 13:56, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Copyvio check

Earwig not giving anything worrying

Images

Both pix fine, relevant and appropriately licensed. Thanks for adding alts, shame there arent more pix of her to add!

Article status

Article is stable, focused, broad and neutral

Spotchecks and referencing

On this version

4 She concealed the fact but was expelled from her home by her parents once her medical condition was known, later saying, "I remember the feeling well, because I still experience it every time someone rejects me, even in some relatively small way." - ok
48 can't access, AGF

It's available at archive.org if you do want a look - see the "Brief notices" section. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:19, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

ah yes thanks, that's verified now :) Mujinga (talk) 12:48, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

49 - available on archive
- Finders Keepers (1984) received very mixed reviews,[49]: 333–334 - ok
- with Stephenson also receiving contrasting appraisals: Andrew Yule, in his biography of the director, Lester, praised "a deft appearance by the wonderfully funny, ridiculously underrated Pamela Stephenson",[49]: 334 - ok
96 & 97 - In 2003, on the BBC Radio 4 programme Devout Sceptics, she told Bel Mooney that through Buddhism, "I could at last feel I had begun life as a wonderful piece of creation, that a person doesn't have to struggle every day to overcome darkness and sin."[96][97] - 96 isn't doing much, 97 could do with a page number since it's a book - quote is on p4, so it is backed ... 6 could back the year but then it's 2002 not 2003

I've amended the year to 2002 and retained the show ref to show that year. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:19, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

24
- The Guinness book of Classic British TV authors Paul Cornell, Martin Day and Keith Topping wrote that Stephenson "took up the punk ethic of outraging the audience with directness",[24]: 150 - ok
- and that "most critics were united in their praise of Atkinson and Stephenson".[24]: 151 - ok
- She caricatured various newsreaders such as Angela Rippon and Jan Leeming in the show.[24]: 150–1 - ok
- Not the Nine O'Clock News was awarded the Silver Rose for innovation at the 1980 Montreux Festival.[24]: 151- ok
- Spin-offs from the show included several books, record albums, and a stage show, Not in Front of the Audience.[24]: 152 - ok
In 2007, she published Head Case: Treat Yourself to Better Mental Health,[79][80] which was followed by Sex Life: How Our Sexual Encounters and Experiences Define Who We Are in 2011.[72][81] - dont really need 80 and 81, which are the books themselves (as you know ofc). 79 is about Shrink Rap and does mention Head Case, but not the full title. 72 is "Schwartzkoff, Louise (26 June 2011). "Sex is on her mind". The Sun Herald. p. E.4." and like a number of references on this article is hard to verify. did you add/verify these yourself BennyOnTheLoose?

Yes, some are through NewsBank which I have access to as a British Library reader. The Schwartzkoff article has Her doctoral dissertation focused on the "intra-psychic experience of fame". and Stephenson-Connolly tells the story in her book, Sex Life: How Our Sexual Experiences Define Who We Are. I've added an extra ref from 2007 for the full title of Head Case BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:19, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looking in more detail, there is one exception: Theatre Record, 19 May 1982 to 2 June 1982, p. 278 (I should be able to check the hard copy this week, looks like the publication title should be London Theatre Record). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:02, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've updated the reference asn also removed "to 1983" as the sources are both from 1982. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:40, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
cool thanks for the reply on that, then my concern that there are references here which you have "inherited" and might not be accurate is assuaged Mujinga (talk) 12:49, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2 The varnished untruth should be capitalised to be standard
Also our fave plugin signals "Inconsistent use of Publisher Location (3 with; 7 without)"

The two points above should now be fixed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:19, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

103 has a whiff of original research to it

Given that the lead starts "Pamela Stephenson, Lady Connolly", I thought it needed a mention somewhere, but happy to consider alternatives. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:19, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

yeah on reflection that seems ok Mujinga (talk) 13:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Prose

Early life

"Stephenson studied at the University of New South Wales " - what did she study?

Her autobiography just says "the Bachelor of Arts programme" BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for checking! Mujinga (talk) 12:49, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Doing stand-up was like a war with everyone playing this game of "I can be funnier than you". - needs another closing apostrophe

Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not the Nine O'Clock News

Is the paragraph beginning "In one Not the Nine O'Clock News sketch" necessary? It could be if expanded to discuss Stephenson's opinion on how she is/was perceived by people, shifting the focus from her breasts to her. For example the quote says in full:

But don’t be thinking this is easy for me. I’m darn good at getting under
other people’s skin, but opening up about my own life is quite a different
matter. And since I truly hate to be misunderstood, how am I going to
communicate the gestalt of who I am? People who have come to public
attention are portrayed in fragments, and I would be quite afraid to discover
which particular aspect of me you had already gleaned. Was it ‘the woman in
the American Express sketch’? Or ‘Billy Connolly’s missus’? Or simply
‘wacky, zany Pam’? Being reduced to a three-word phrase turns one into a
one-dimensional being and the impression that’s created is very hard to shift.
So how shall I portray myself? There are choices, you know. Wife, mother,
psychologist, writer, comedian, actor, dancer, diver, gypsy, dreamer, rich girl,
poor girl, beggar girl, thief . . . I am all of those and more. Tell you what,
YOU decide. You decide exactly what I am.

I've had a go at this. The sketch is certainly one of the best-known and most representative examples of the show's humour, which was often deliberately shocking and provocative, but as you say the focus in the article was a bit off. May need some further work. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:57, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yeah that's great now, nice one! I'd only suggest changing "In one Not the Nine O'Clock News sketch" to "In one Not the Nine O'Clock News sketch that became famous" or similar - just something that can be sourced to show why this particular sketch deserves mention Mujinga (talk) 12:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've amended the text. The Gold Coast Bulletin has "Thirty-something years on people still call Pamela Stephenson's bust-revealing American Express skit one of the highlights of the irreverent British TV comedy Not The Nine O'Clock News."; and The Independent has, about Stephenson, "Most memorable line: "American Express Sir, that will do nicely ...}}", athough it misquotes the sketch. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:07, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
i find the small b in "The Guinness book of Classic British TV" slightly odd, what do you think?

Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

1980s and 1990s

39 weird that cite news gives different outputs between "Wheatcroft, Howard (18 March 1982)" and ""TV's off moments". Walsall Observer. 19 February 1982."

I think this is to do with the cite news template, which displays differently if there is a named author. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

yes that must be it Mujinga (talk) 12:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The paragraph beginning "She appeared in Landscape's music video" has a lot of short sentnences maybe some can be run together?

Tweaked it a bit, but happy to receive any suggestions. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On "1981 BBC1 series about the creative process," - the comma should be a semi-colon?
"The 1986 drama Lost Empires saw her in a serious role. The Daily Telegraph critic Charles Clover felt that Stephenson was one of the positives in a dull series." - run these two sentences together?

Amended the article per the two points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you can explain what How To Be A Complete Bitch was, presumably a comedy book?

I've added "comedy"; the best desciption I could find was in Birmingham News for 30 October 1987, where Stephenson tells an interviewer that she modelled her character for the book on Mae West and Bette Davis, and "The book tells you how to be bitchy to your family, how to humiliate your man, and how to be a leisure bitch". I can add some of this if you think it's worthwhile. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"She told Candida Baker of The Age that she was pleased with the book being described as "sexist, violent and crude"" - is pretty hilarious! i think this bit is improved and could also benefit from saying the book followed the book Ade Edmondson wrote with the same authors Mujinga (talk) 12:58, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've added How to Be a Complete Bastard. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:33, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2010s and 2020s

passing comment - blimey what a life!
"The biographical show told the story of Dos Santos and his dancing. Dos Santos also performed in the show. " - run these two setnences together?

Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:57, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Psychology

"after studying at Antioch University." - can you specify this is in US, since i was guessing UK or Australia
link sex therapy?

Amended per both points. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:58, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Politics and activism

Wow, this is a real rollercoaster of a paragraph! I think being a MP candidate for a joke party needs to be contextualised. And alar might be better off with its own paragraph.

I failed to find a statement that it was a "joke" candidacy; perhaps the addition of some of her key policies suggests this. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

excellent yes that works, we need more of that sort of thing in politics I think! Mujinga (talk) 13:00, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

"Stephenson converted to Buddhism in 1979, shortly before she joined Not the Nine O'Clock News" - This sentence seems quite random, because we are in the 2000s talking about her books about Connolly then we jump back to 1979 before she met him. And what is its relevance to the next sentence "The couple moved to Los Angeles in 1991, and later alternated between homes in New York and Scotland"?
- I've moved to to somewhere less jarring; I could put it more choronologically I guess. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:48, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
i do think chronological is better since it's still a weird insertion (although better) Mujinga (talk) 13:02, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"She attended Sarah Ferguson's hen night with Diana, Princess of Wales, where the trio dressed as police officers." - again rather random and not particulary encyclopedic

Removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:00, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

not removed but obviously that's not a pass/fail issue Mujinga (talk) 13:00, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed it now, must have forgotten to save the change. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:24, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"As of September 2022, the couple lived in Key West, Florida.[69]" - any updates or more recent news?

I couldn't find any update on a GNews search. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:00, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for checking! Mujinga (talk) 13:00, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography

our favourite plugin gives publisher location inconsistency

Fixed that and a few other things it showed. I hadn't know about that pugin at the time. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:54, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

it's cool Bravemouth: Living with Billy Connolly has a "free registration" thingy, then I guess the other archive.org links should as well

Added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:54, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

great!!

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.