Talk:POG
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Twitch emote
[edit]The PogChamp Twitch emote is not mentioned in the Twitch article (why would it be; it's not that important to Twitch), but it is definitely a thing ([1]; [2]; [3]; [4]; [5]; etc.). The majority of the usages of the word "pog" are probably in direct or indirect reference to this emote, so I think it should definitely be at least mentioned here, despite WP:DABABBREV, based on WP:IAR. Does anyone disagree? Nog642 (talk) 18:40, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- No, there is no relevant encyclopedic content. older ≠ wiser 18:53, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- I think there is. Namely the Twitch (service) article. If someone were to come across the word "pog" in reference to the emote, they could find themselves on this page. And although the PogChamp emote itself doesn't deserve a Wikipedia page (or even necessarily to be mentioned on the Twitch page), it is useful for them to be directed to the Twitch page, where Twitch emotes in general are mentioned and explained. Nog642 (talk) 19:22, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Except that the twitch page says nothing about pog. That is no help to dump the reader in article without any support. older ≠ wiser 19:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- If the entry in this disambiguation contains a short description explaining that PogChamp is a Twitch emote (e.g. "PogChamp, a popular Twitch emote"), and then the linked Twitch page explains what a Twitch emote is, I think that's enough explanation to be useful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nog642 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- That would be introducing unreferenced article content to the disambiguation page. Wikipedia doesn't (and shouldn't) attempt to disambiguate every transient slang terminology. If the term is notable, then mention it in the relevant article with references as appropriate. If it is not notable, there's no need to mention. older ≠ wiser 19:33, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- It's not transient slang, it's been in use for almost a decade. I don't think it should be mentioned in the Twitch article because mentioning it wouldn't add much to that article. Twitch has lots of emotes and this one isn't so far above the rest that it deserves a mention on that page. On the other hand, I think it's definitely relevant on this page, because a large portion (I'd even say a majority) of the use of the term "pog" refers to this emote, at least indirectly. A subject can be relevant in one article and not in another, can it not? Entries in disambiguation pages do not necessarily need to have their own articles. Nog642 (talk) 19:56, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- WP:DABMENTION is the relevant guideline. Disambiguation pages should not introduce information that is not supported by an existing article. older ≠ wiser 20:01, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- It's not transient slang, it's been in use for almost a decade. I don't think it should be mentioned in the Twitch article because mentioning it wouldn't add much to that article. Twitch has lots of emotes and this one isn't so far above the rest that it deserves a mention on that page. On the other hand, I think it's definitely relevant on this page, because a large portion (I'd even say a majority) of the use of the term "pog" refers to this emote, at least indirectly. A subject can be relevant in one article and not in another, can it not? Entries in disambiguation pages do not necessarily need to have their own articles. Nog642 (talk) 19:56, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- That would be introducing unreferenced article content to the disambiguation page. Wikipedia doesn't (and shouldn't) attempt to disambiguate every transient slang terminology. If the term is notable, then mention it in the relevant article with references as appropriate. If it is not notable, there's no need to mention. older ≠ wiser 19:33, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- If the entry in this disambiguation contains a short description explaining that PogChamp is a Twitch emote (e.g. "PogChamp, a popular Twitch emote"), and then the linked Twitch page explains what a Twitch emote is, I think that's enough explanation to be useful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nog642 (talk • contribs) 19:31, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Except that the twitch page says nothing about pog. That is no help to dump the reader in article without any support. older ≠ wiser 19:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- I think there is. Namely the Twitch (service) article. If someone were to come across the word "pog" in reference to the emote, they could find themselves on this page. And although the PogChamp emote itself doesn't deserve a Wikipedia page (or even necessarily to be mentioned on the Twitch page), it is useful for them to be directed to the Twitch page, where Twitch emotes in general are mentioned and explained. Nog642 (talk) 19:22, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Ok, after looking at MOS:DABPAGES § Linking to Wiktionary, I think the best option is to add a Wiktionary link at the top of this page with a short description. The pog Wiktionary page has a good explanation of the slang term, and even its broader use outside of direct reference to the PogChamp emote. Anyone disagree with this idea? Nog642 (talk) 20:14, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Except MOS:WTLINK is about using the wiktionary template on the first line of the page -- not for creating an entry. Wiktionary is already included for this page. older ≠ wiser 21:35, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- I have only ever heard of pog meaning the disc-based children's game. Very very recently in World of Warcraft chat, people have just started emitting "pog" arbitrarily. It does not mean, accomplish, or change anything when they say it. This talk page showed me the wiktionary description that saying "pog" to mean "I am excited" is derived from the familiar disc-based children's game. Definitely the game is the main core meaning of this word so I dispute the claim that a large proportion / majority refers to this emote. I was going to edit the Disamb to wikilink to Twitch (service) because currently "Twitch" is unlinked and has nothing to do with the spasms that most people will think of when they read that word (ie, the primary meaning listed first at Twitch's disamb page). A minority of people use computers; a minority of those who do use them to play games; a minority of them use the misleadingly named Twitch (service). This is extremely niche and not common parlance. It's helpful for wiktionary to have a derivation to help mainstream folk understand eclectic gibberish but if it has existed for a decade before being noticed that doesn't sound noteworthy. It sounds like a fad, like saying "wizard" or "wicked" or "bonzer" or "bodacious" to mean "I'm excited". Pogs was popular and it's got its flash in the spotlight but soon some other passtime with take the spotlight and become the new jargon buzzword of the year. 49.195.230.182 (talk) 07:20, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
- First, recognize that your personal experience is not universal. I myself have rarely heard Milk caps (game) talked about at all, and then only by the name "Pogs" not "pog", while I hear the slang term a lot. Of course I recognize my experience is not universal either, but your comments about how it seems meaningless to you come off as very condescending. Second, the Wiktionary entry does not say the slang term originates from the milk caps game; in fact it calls it Twitch-speak. Third, I don't know where you're getting "A minority of people use computers". I think it's over 50% of people globally that have have internet access now. Regardless, something does not have to be known by a majority of people to be on Wikipedia. And last, my intention was always to link the Twitch (service) article. Anyways, now that PogChamp has had its own controversy, it now has its own article and is included in the list. And though hard to notice and in the corner of the page, the Wiktionary link has always been there. So I am no longer advocating for additional changes. Nog642 (talk) 03:27, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pog currently says "The term "PogChamp" refers to a 2011 promotional video called "Pogs Championship" by Gutierrez in which he wins a game of Pogs (see the Wikipedia article for its etymology)." with Pogs being wikilinked to Milk caps (game). This suggests the wiktionary supports the children's game as being the origin of this entire phenomenon (even if "Twitch" has bootstrapped the game's fame out of obscurity). But definitely link to the Twitch (service) article in this one!49.180.94.84 (talk) 14:17, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
- First, recognize that your personal experience is not universal. I myself have rarely heard Milk caps (game) talked about at all, and then only by the name "Pogs" not "pog", while I hear the slang term a lot. Of course I recognize my experience is not universal either, but your comments about how it seems meaningless to you come off as very condescending. Second, the Wiktionary entry does not say the slang term originates from the milk caps game; in fact it calls it Twitch-speak. Third, I don't know where you're getting "A minority of people use computers". I think it's over 50% of people globally that have have internet access now. Regardless, something does not have to be known by a majority of people to be on Wikipedia. And last, my intention was always to link the Twitch (service) article. Anyways, now that PogChamp has had its own controversy, it now has its own article and is included in the list. And though hard to notice and in the corner of the page, the Wiktionary link has always been there. So I am no longer advocating for additional changes. Nog642 (talk) 03:27, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
- There's now a page for PogChamp after the most recent controversy. Since this is now an entry on Wikipedia wouldn't it make sense to list PogChamp here now? NekomancerJaidyn (talk) 06:49, 17 June 2021 (UTC)