Talk:Outer bailey

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Military history: Fortifications / Medieval

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Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page to Outer bailey, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 04:10, 12 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bailey (castle) → Outer bailey – I've cleaned up the original translation and removed the tag. It is now abundantly clear that the article is referring specifically to outer baileys, not baileys in general. Bermicourt (talk) 17:46, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bermicourt, how does Bailey/Outer bailey relate to Ward (castle)? Is it an outer and inner set up or something else? Gregkaye ✍♪ 20:30, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good question, Greg. Firstly, a ward and a bailey are the same thing in castle parlance. Ward (castle) covers baileys and wards in general (inner, outer, middle, etc), whereas, having cleaned up the translation on this one, it is only about outer baileys. So Ward (castle) is the parent article of this one and there should at least one other child called "inner bailey" (which I can create or translate from German Wiki). --Bermicourt (talk) 20:41, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bermicourt, TY for this ... I love this stuff :)

~~Conditional~~ support of move to Outer bailey on condition that Ward (castle) is moved to Bailey (castle). I think that this should move as part of a package. The second move may even be able to go as a manual move or non-controversial move following this request. ~~Otherwise support~~ move to Outer ward which generally seems to be a less preferable option but which would at least provide consistency. Gregkaye ✍♪ 16:11, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bermicourt, I've just noticed the article on Inner bailey which I see you have also worked on. I guess that converts my condition re consistency into a suggestion. Gregkaye ✍♪ 16:20, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Greg, you're right, it would be good to have consistency - either "ward" or "bailey". The literature uses them interchangeably so we could go with either. I slightly favour bailey because we talk about motte and bailey castles, not motte and ward castles. Also I just sense that "ward" has more alternative uses and may be a bit more confusing. Maybe we can sort that out as a follow-on step. --Bermicourt (talk) 19:28, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Looking at the current title, I thought this was an article about a castle named Bailey. bd2412 T 02:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per the above; the subject is specifically outer bailey's, matching the article we have on inner bailey's. As an aside, though, does the article lack a worldview? It isn't just German castles that have inner and outer baileys (viz these three); they were a pretty standard arrangement throughout the Middle Ages. Moonraker12 (talk) 15:38, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, Moonraker. These are largely translated from German Wikipedia, so are central-Europe-centric (!). I will look to expanding them with more generic information, such as the examples you mention, as I'm sure will other interested editors. --Bermicourt (talk) 17:25, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Ward (castle) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:30, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]