Talk:Ottoman entry into World War I

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 January 2021 and 7 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Matt hew190.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:00, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

On the abrogation of the capitulations

See http://levantineheritage.com/pdf/Ottoman-Perceptions-of-the-Capitulations-1800-1914.pdf —Srnec (talk) 05:25, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

I have no idea why one editor insists on treating this article like a timeline. It does not help the reader, since the material cannot be organized topically. Srnec (talk) 00:48, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Srnec Bring your sourced information into talk page first. Your edits deforms the events. Creates an unfaithful interpretation of the timeline. SelimAnkara1993 (talk) 01:14, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

You're full of shit and I'm not interested in discussing it with you. I removed no sourced information and every bit I added was sourced. Srnec (talk) 01:24, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

pls do not curse. "full of shit" is not an appropriate way to communicate. SelimAnkara1993 (talk) 01:27, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

In your edit you removed paragraph beginning "On 24 September 1914, Wilhelm Souchon commissioned in the [[Ottoman Navy]] with the rank of Vice Admiral.<ref>{{harvnb|Erickson|2001|pp=29}}</ref> " And reorganized the text into "On 14 September, Enver directed Souchon to take his ships into the Black Sea and to fire upon any Russian vessel they encountered. This directive, which went over the head of Cemal Pasha, the minister of marine, was presumably made by Enver as acting commander-in-chief, although Souchon's place in the chain of command was unclear. Said Halim forced a cabinet vote on the issue of Enver's directive and it was countermanded. Souchon complained to Wangenheim, who authorised him to approach the Ottoman government directly. Talks between the German admiral and Said Halim were held on 18 September. Since the [[Ottoman Modern Army#British_Military_Mission|British naval mission]] (active since April 1912) had been vacated by Admiral [[Arthur Limpus]] on 15 September, it was proposed that Souchon should take over the departing admiral's role. He was also to receive a one-year commission in the Ottoman Navy, which would place him directly under the orders of Cemal Pasha. These terms were accepted and, on 24 September 1914, Wilhelm Souchon was commissioned with the rank of Vice Admiral. He was forbidden, however, to take his ships on training cruises in the Black Sea.<ref>{{harvnb|Erickson|2001|pp=33–34}}</ref>"
The text you wrote begins with Enver on 14 September directing a German officer, as Souchon was not employed by Ottoman Navy yet (14 sep is before 24 sep), to attack a Russian vessel. That statement is a re-write. Your re-write ends with Ericson 2001 page range 33-34. I have Erickson 2001. If you send me the exact page and exact line number, I can verify even if there was some sorts of an 'order' on 14 Sep to Souchon. Thank you. SelimAnkara1993 (talk) 02:12, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

I apologise for saying "full of shit", but for heaven's sake, you're asking for a page number when the citation I added gives it! Souchon was ceremonially appointed commander on 16 August. This was as fictitious (though effective) as the sale. It is "unclear why", as Erickson states, Enver was giving Souchon orders on 14 September, but he was. This was rectified after talks on the 18th, which resulted in Souchon being formally commissioned on 24 September. This satisfied both sides by clearly placing Souchon on Ottoman authority and also clearly giving him command authority within the navy. Srnec (talk) 02:33, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. I will look into those pages. Give me some time, Easter is coming. SelimAnkara1993 (talk) 02:49, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

The name Souchon suddenly appears without explanation well into the article, and from then onwards appears many times. If this person is so important he needs a proper introduction in the article to explain who he was. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 02:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Blocked sock:Meowy.

I have been reading through this article and have noted numerous bare-faced lies, and huge quantities of weasel-wording, cherry-picking of facts and deceptive wording. I've done a small amount of correcting, mostly that related to the seizure of the Ottoman battleships being constructed in Britain. Uncorrected bare-faced lies include the claim that Turkey "had decided unanimously to open the Straits to the Goeben and light Breslau, which were being pursued by ships of the Royal Navy, and to any Austro-Hungarian vessels accompanying them." - "The Turkish Front" source I used for the seizure content gives a clear account of the movement of these ships in the weeks preceding its entry into the straights and there is no Royal Navy pursuit of them, they were engaged firstly in attacking troop ships going from N Africa to France, then engaged in attacking ports in Algeria, then were ordered to sail to Constantinople, with access to the Straits being demanded by Germany. The article needs pov tagging, and the propaganda sources (like Erickson) and the general sources (how can a general history of the entire Ottoman Empire seriously be used as a content source for this small time period) need to be removed. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:49, 27 May 2015 (UTC) Blocked sock:Meowy.