Talk:Otabek Mahkamov

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Derogatory sections

Yep, this article is a mess. And Dr.K. is right; we need reputable sources to include any of these negative allegations. Additionally, even if all the statements are verifiably true, the article needs to be cleaned up for NPOV and to avoid repetition.

The broken links, Google Drive, etc, should be easy to identify and remove. The more difficult issue is with the Russian and Uzbek language articles. I'll try to find someone from ru and uz Wikipedias who's uninvolved and willing to take a look at them, and I'll do what I can with Google Translate.

Mister Mahkamov was right to bring this to our attention. —Guan aco 19:28, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well I for one support the removal - Many editors remove sourced content under bs/false claims and unfortunately I thought the same here, Anyway out of the 3 source only one is live and even that isn't a reliable source, The claim is also on his Uzbek article again backed up with the exact same sources, Seems like a smear campaign IMHO. –Davey2010^Talk 19:36, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) @Guanaco: Thank you Guanaco. As I mentioned at BLPN, and on my talk, the removed material was full of links that did not work, links that did not have the material claimed, and at least one link from Google drive containing a letter from a university. The removed text also included language accusing the BLP subject of lying. I am pretty sure this is an OR-based attack piece, hence my removal. This stuff is also in no-way BLP-compliant. Dr. K. 19:38, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Davey2010: Hi Davey. Believe me, it was very hard for me to revert editors such as yourself, and Jim1138, whom I know and greatly respect. I don't know Guanaco but I understood he is also a very good editor, and that made my revert all that much harder. But I knew it was because of the foreign sources. When I looked at these sources, and also at the language of the now removed text, I knew we had an OR-fueled attack piece. Therefore, I removed it, knowing that you and the other editors would understand my reasons. Dr. K. 19:45, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Dr.K., No worries I'm just glad you looked and removed before it was protected! :), Unfortunately many newbies (even article subjects) remove negative content about that person/themselves quite alot so it's easy just to assume that especially here, Alls I can say is thank the lord someone checked and removed the protection was applied! :). Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 19:55, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your kind words Davey. What a mess, due to these weird foreign-language sources. I agree, it was fortunate to have that piece removed before the article got protected. That, and the fact that all editors involved were great, including two of them whom I know and I greatly respect. :) Dr. K. 20:03, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not finding anything of value; it seems that blog spam is still recognizable when you put it through Google Translate. I also notified the Uzbek Wikipedia admin who protected the article over there, for comment.

If no one objects before protection expires, I'd say we have a consensus to remove everything not in the current version. —Guan aco 20:05, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No objection from me. Thank you Guanaco for following up. Take care. Dr. K. 20:08, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone! No objection from me either. I'm the primary author of both the English and Uzbek entries on Makhkamov. While writing the criticism section, I relied both on online and print media. (I still have the scanned copies of newspaper and journal articles about Makhamov.) The reason I meticulously researched his contradictory claims is that he personally contacted me to restore the entry about himself on the Russian Wikipedia. Ruwiki admins have banned creating an article about him after he personally tried to write a panegyric about himself at least half a dozen times. Makhkamov even offered me money for getting the job done! He got in touch with me through a friend of mine. I obviously refused but did research the "alternative facts" about him. If the sources I cited are not entirely reliable, go ahead and remove them. As for the Uzbek article, I think we should hear what other uzwiki users have to say. The reason is that there is a lot of information about Makhmamov in the Uzbek language. I've protected the uzwiki page so that only registered users can edit it. I don't think it's a big hurdle for those who want to improve it. Nataev ^talk 18:49, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you have no objection, please remove protection from Uzbek version so that other editors could fix your unverified content. You can check the following links on the article: http://www.bekajon.com/xafta-mexmoni/otabek-maxkamov-sanatda-pajdo-bulishi-zhudolikdan-kejingi-xayot-va-sunggi-mish-mishlar-xakida/ The page doesn't exist anymore, it's showing Japanese content. http://ijod.uzbek.kg/kg/mtbt/item/155-%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%BA-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2-%E2%80%9E%D2%B3%D0%B0%D2%9B%D0%B8%D2%9B%D0%B0%D1%82-%D1%8E%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B1-%D0%B1%D1%9E%D0%BB%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B8-%E2%80%9C This domain isn't active anymore. https://web.archive.org/web/20150409072536/http://sayyod.com/news/khu_u_shunosman_degan_akter_firibgarmi/2015-03-08-3494 This one is from personal blog. Nataev, can you show me any working link here? Samarkandiy 20:11, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's very unfortunate that the Ijodkor website is down. However, an archive of my report is available here. As fot the Bekajon website, that doesn't change much. Moreover, Wayback Machine has captured that article as well. Finally, sayyod.com is by far the most well-known Uzbek entertainment website. And stop wining about the protection. All you have to do is register to be able to edit the article. You also need to have made at least 100 edits. It seems you have only edited the article on Makhkamov. You sure seem to be trying very hard to whitewash him. By the way, there's no need to send threatening emails and insult me on my talk page. (What does me living outside of Uzbekistan or my "low genealogy" have to do with anything?) Let's keep it civil. Otherwise you'll end up getting blocked. Nataev ^talk 03:11, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just so that everyone knows, Samarkandiy went on a tirade of personal attacks on my talk page and has sent me threatening emails. I've warned him. If he doesn't stop, I'll have to block him. Nataev ^talk 03:45, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Can you add the content of the email I've sent you on this talk? I've never threatened anyone. You can't use your writing "tone" which you use for Uzbek community here, right? If you block me for my evidences that you're adding crap content, you don't deserve to be an admin of the Uzbek Wikipedia! Instead of cleaning articles you're destroying them. It's your choice! Samarkandiy 04:05, 27 May 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.114.100.169 (talk) [reply]

The tirade never stopped, so I've blocked him on uzwiki. Nataev ^talk 04:14, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Wikipedia English admins, the Wikipedia Uzbek admin Nataev ^talk or any other admins are not updating the content on Uzbek version. I've opened talk on Uzbek version as well, but so far there was no result. The user/Uzwiki admin talk added the source that was written by himself, is it allowed when editor uses his own article? Please check the link: https://web.archive.org/web/20150616091605/http://ijod.uzbek.kg/kg/mtbt/item/155-%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%BA-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%85%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2-%E2%80%9E%D2%B3%D0%B0%D2%9B%D0%B8%D2%9B%D0%B0%D1%82-%D1%8E%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B1-%D0%B1%D1%9E%D0%BB%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%B4%D0%B8-%E2%80%9C it contains Nataev ^talk's name in it "Нодир АТАЕВ" which is Nodir Ataev in Latin alphabet. Samarkandiy 14:41, 30 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've cited my own article because it was published by an independent outlet which has an editorial board. Davron Hotam, who is the head of the board, reviewed my article before publishing it. Moreover, I've cited print media as well. Specifically, over a dozen newspaper articles. I can provide copies of every single one of them. Mahkamov has made many contradictory claims and anyone interested in this issue can check it for himself. His case is similar to that of Essjay. FYI, Нодир Атаев is in Cyrillic, not Latin. Don't get confused. Nataev ^talk 04:07, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The article was written based on the Wikipedia article, therefore I think it's not a reliable source for the BLP. Samarkandiy 14:23, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, it wasn't. I first had my report published, then cited it (along with over a dozen published articles) in the article. Nataev ^talk 03:38, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please read this

https://uz.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munozara:Otabek_Mahkamov Samarkandiy 01:18, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What is it you want to point out on uz:munozara:Otabek Mahkamov? uz:Otabek Mahkamov appears to have the same problem as this article. Are you implying that the "controversy" needs to be removed as it was (and should have) been removed from Otabek Mahkamov? Jim1138 (talk) 01:25, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, most of the content which is written in Uzbek (FYI: I'm native Uzbek speaker) version by the user Nataev is not verified. I checked all the links. Either they are not working or from blogger's website. The reason that I'm writing this here is Nataev is trying to protect his own false/unverified content by putting Vandalized content excuse. Samarkandiy 01:31, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you should start a discussion on uz:munozara:Otabek Mahkamov, point out the problems with the dead links, google drive being used as a source, etc. Google drive is a wp:selfpublished source and therefore not WP:RS. I would think that there should be the equivalent of wp:BLPN on uz:. Or, ask an administrator. Give evidence, not just a claim. Make a list of supposed sources and links. Show they are either dead links / 404 or self-published sources. Argue it is in violation of wp:BLP or its Uzbek equivalent. I would think that should result in the article being cleaned-up. The problem here is that many, including myself, are contently bombarded with removal of criticism often with bad-faith claims of bad/unreliable/self-published sources, etc. So, it is important to give evidence. Jim1138 (talk) 04:14, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone! I've restored the deleted material. But first I rescued all the dead sources and added both titles and trans-titles. If you still have issues, please write about them here. I've also removed the protection from the Uzbek version of the article. Cheers! Nataev ^talk 12:26, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]