Talk:Origin of Latter Day Saint polygamy/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

→

Archive 5

Initial thoughts

Many of these wives are not historically important and may never need an article, so I think most of them should be de-linked. Moreover, it might be more useful to list the wives based on what sort of documentation for them exists. Compton reports this, right? Also, as discussed on Talk:JS, it should read that "Emma publicly opposed polygamy until the end of her life" — she appears to have been complicit in some of the marriages. Cool Hand Luke 06:53, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Whoever wrote "to the utter shock" of those coming home, do you think that might just be a wee smidgeon of POV??? Perhaps you might like to go back to that area of the article and do some editing. If I did it, you would find a lot of deletions and a basically a new article. The object of this article is to inform and not to besmirch. I know it is a novel concept, but for those that just can't help themselves, before quoting anti-Mormon "literature", you might first want to read how we like to err on the side of fairness and NPOV on this site. Storm Rider 16:10, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I am not comfortable with the deletions I made today in the article, but I do feel most of them were strictly POV. Particular attention should be made to sweeping generalities about the feelings of the Saints and potential motivations. This is not the place to delve into psycho-history, but rather a place for the presentation of facts. Those who originally wrote the article, but attempt to make less of an opinion piece on how terrible Joseph was. Storm Rider 01:47, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Reformatted list

I put the names in a list, rather than in just one overwhelming para. The intro to the list says that it's Compton's, but there are 34 wives rather than 33. Disputed names should probably also be added. Dates of marriages or sealings should be added too. Zora 22:24, 9 May 2005 (UTC) (a newcomer to this topic, but did work on article Muhammad's marriages)

Excellent idea - I think that wedding dates; sealing dates, or other documentation as near as possible should be a qualifying item for adding the women to the list - if no documentation, no adding. Compton’s could be a good start, but because of the controversial nature of both, we need to err on the side of accuracy not speculation. Let's add in the disputed names, but say why they are disputed, and some documentation or reason for including. Hope that makes sense. Include everyone, but justify why they are added. -Visorstuff 00:33, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Joseph Smith: Innocent of Polygamy!

This article is so completely and totally out of line that I must say I have never seen anything on Wikipedia so out of phase with its principles. Unlike Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, Jr.'s possible involvement in the promotion of polygamy is hotly debated to this day.

• Joseph Smith: Innocent of Polygamy
• Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy

Either Wikipedia should recognize the fact that this accusation is not true OR it should at least recognize the incredibly fiery controversy over this issue! --Nerd42 15:25, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

The point of NPOV is not to censor controversial issues, but rather to represent all sides of the issue on an equal basis. bcatt 18:31, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh yes, definitely. I agree. That's why I didn't try to put this article up for deletion. --Nerd42 18:38, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

This article is well documented. I've looked at the primary sources, and have to agree, as has the Community of Christ, that he did teacha nd practice plural marriage. It is a complex issue however, as he definitely fought "spiritual wivery" publicly. Rather than fighting the evidence that is already discussed and well documented, you should add in more evidence against his practice of it and of the dispute. Start a new section about those who don't believe this. I think it would make a great addition. Also, you may want to provide more evidences than from only one website and author - not that I'm doubting the Price’s research (although I disagree with their conclusions), but more sources are good - especially when the RLDS historical office (COC church) has now stated they were wrong in believing he did not practice it, negating other statements by Joseph III, Israel and others. -Visorstuff 19:47, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Hotly debated or not, the majority of scholars agree that he was a polygamist. The majority view is not always the correct view, but to say an article is "out of line" doesn't exactly hold water. I fully agree with Vistorstuff that adding info to the contrary, so that readers are well informed and able to make up their own minds, is a superb idea. Dr U 00:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

What I really need to do is look up when exactly it was that the Community of Christ started changing their story ... I'm betting it was after the split in 1984. --Nerd42 01:18, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

• This says RLDS changed its stance in the 1970's.
• True or not, the idea is accepted in pop culture. Dr U 01:34, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Everything I've ever heard that alleges that Smith led this kind of double-life (family man and religious leader in one life, bigamist and adulterer in the other) has been put forward by unrelated people. But who knows, I haven't read through all of the sources for these articles yet (though I plan to). Speaking of unrelated people: What people think today is irrelevant to whether Smith was a polygamist in the 1830s, since the man himself consistently denied it, and so did his immediate family, and most other people who would be in a position to know what he was up to who weren't involved in polygamy themselves. The man himself makes such a compelling case that his ghost can almost argue with you on it's own. (That was a colorful metaphor, I don't believe in ghosts) A good example of this is one of the quotations Price beings his article with:

"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives.... I am innocent of all these charges.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers." —Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6:410–411

Please be patient while I read through these sources, make some contacts and/or get some more sources together. --Nerd42 01:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC)