Talk:Onza

taxonomy

Does this creature actually have an official taxonomic classification?--Marhawkman 21:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

class

Why is this in WikiProject Paranormal? Just because it's related to cryptozoology?--Marhawkman 21:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

It has not been proven to exist24.36.212.177 00:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

There are two possibilities: The onza exists, or the onza doesn't exist. Both hypotheses have nothing paranormal about them. No cryptozoologist observing scientific methods would add unnecessary paranormal (ghosts, UFOs, whatever) hypotheses to that - that's left to pseudoscientific I-want-to-believers. Therefore, I don't see any reason why this article should be classified as paranormal. --130.92.9.56 14:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

The Onza is still a mysterious creature and many people believe its lack of 'evidence' suggests that its existence is other-worldly. PigeonPiece (talk) 15:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Merge this article with Jaguarundi?

The Onza appears to be the Herpailurus yaguarondi or Herpailorus yagouaroundi (CONAP naming), aka Puma yaguarondi. It is considered an endangered species. Moreover, "The Jaguarundi is so elusive that researchers have been unable to estimate how many are left in the wild." according to Texas Parks and Wildlife. There is an Onza population in the Sierra de las Minas biosphere reserve in Guatemala.

I suggest this article be cleaned up, and merged with the Jaguarundi article. Arjuno 19:43, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

What makes you think the onza has anything to do with a Jaguarundi? I've never seen a source indicate this. Before a merger can take place, there needs to be a reliable source connecting the two. Firsfron of Ronchester 03:18, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

So far, I found the following sources making a link between onza and jaguarundi:

1. The Parkswatch profile on the Sierra de la Minas Biosphere Reserve in Guatemala includes this reference to the Onza: "There is also a significant presence of felines, including the jaguar (Panthera onca), puma (Felis concolor), onza (Herpailorus yagouaroundi), ocelot (Leopardus pardalis) and margay (Leopardus wiedii.) (FDN, 1997.)" FDN stands for Fundación Defensores de la Naturaleza, an NGO that manages the Sierra de las Minas biosphere reserve and has first hand knowledge of the fauna in the reserve. See: http://www.parkswatch.org/parkprofiles/pdf/smbr_eng.pdf

2. The spanish wikipedia article on the yaguarondi (unfortunately unreferenced) lists a series of popular names for Herpailurus yaguarondi, including "Onza": El yaguarundí es un felino nativo de América, cuya distribución comprende desde el sur de los Estados Unidos hasta el centro de Argentina. Se lo conoce también como yaguarondi gato lagarto, gato moro, gato nutria, onza o gato eyrá. See: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpailurus_yaguarondi Arjuno 21:28, 27 July 2008 (UTC).

3. The onza has also been identified as "Felis yaguaroundi" in the "Bocas del Polochic wildlife reserve" in Guatemala (see http://selene.uab.cat/brodriguezl/IM_05_MCE-Izabal.pdf page 126).

4. A field report on the fauna in the Río Sapo in El Salvador (in 2005) mentions the presence of Herpailurus yaguaroundi, aka “gato zonto" or "onza”. See http://www.marn.gob.sv/uploaded/content/article/331857920.pdf pages 6-7.

5. The zoological park "Parque Zoológico Las Delicias" in Venezuela mentions having a number of onzas in the park: "Herpailerus yaguaroundi (Onza)" See: http://zoologicolasdelicias.com.ve/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=45

6. The Royal Academy of the Spanish Language makes 2 references to the "onza". 1) The first one states that "onza" derives from the Latin Lynx, lyncis, which refers to a carnivorous mammal living in the deserts of Asia and Africa. It is similar in appearance to the panther, with a height of around 60 cm and a body length of approximately 100 cm. 2) The second reference states that the name "onza" is used in Honduras and Venezuela to refer to the jaguarundi. See: "Onza", in: Dicconario de la Lengua Española - Vigésima segunda edición - Arjuno 15:43, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

7. The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species includes the following Spanish common names for the Herpailurus yaguarondi: "GATO COLORADO, GATO MORO, LEONCILLO, LEÓN BRENERO, ONZA, TIGRILLO, YAGUARUNDÍ". See: http://www.iucnredlist.org/search/details.php/9948/all Arjuno 18:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

The one trait that is specified over and over for the Onza is the fact that the claws are not retractable, like a Jaguarudi's...they aren't the same... —Preceding unsigned comment added by RockinU440 (talk • contribs) 08:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

It is true that the jaguarundi is also called onza in some countries (And in fact the snow leopard is also called onza), however this cat is not the same as the mythical onza, which is why they shouldn't be merged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.223.230.18 (talk) 02:03, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

As mentioned above, the use of the name onza for the jaguarundi does not mean that this unverified species is the same thing. Merging the two articles on that ground alone would equate merging e.g. all articles on the different fish species called "tuna" or "salmon" in different countries/areas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.55.138.36 (talk) 14:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. Every statement in the Onza article is anecdotal. "There was a guy who knew a guy who saw an Onza, and he's really sure about it!" It's nothing but woo-woo nonsense and has no place in this encyclopedia. Why merge a quality article about real stuff with one about some mythical fantasy? Even this page is full of hollow statements about what other people said. For one thing, there is no creature by the name "Puma". It's a cougar. Swiftek (talk • contribs) 02:02, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. I can see no cause to merge an article about a mythical cat with an article about an actual cat. Perhaps a section should be added to this article listing the evidence that supports the possibility that the mythical cat is in fact a jaguarundi, as well as evidence against. The Onza myth, as a myth, deserves mention in an encyclopedia, just as Big Foot and Yeti do. Its presence in the encyclopedia doesn't mean it's an actual creature, just an actual myth. ThreeOfCups (talk) 22:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose merger - Agree with the others. Even if it can't be proven as a distinct species, even as a legend it is a different subject from the non-legend actual cat.--Oakshade (talk) 19:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Support until there is at least one aspect of this article that differentiates this "cryptid" in any way from a cougar or jaguarundi. If the only aspect that is different in any way is the name... it's just a different name for the same thing. — LlywelynII 12:24, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes or no for Miracinonyx

So this animal isn't believed to be relict Miracinonyx trumani. That doesn't automatically mean it couldn't be any kind of Miracinonyx. Was it only tested against M. trumani (which is what the text implies)? Because honestly, M. trumani was not the only species of Miracinonyx; there was also M. inexpectatus, which was more puma-like than the cheetah-like trumani--so saying that the Onza was too puma-like to be trumani does not automatically disqualify it from being Miracinonyx. 76.94.135.239 (talk) 21:14, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Bernal Diaz Reference

The reference is from Historia verdadera de la conquista de la Nueva España, chapter 11 page 204 of the Ted Humphrey English translation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmstar (talk • contribs) 14:33, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Colombus' Letter

In the text it is said that Colombus send a letter to the Spanish Kings from Mexico, place where he never arrived. Rather he sent the letter from a different place or this event never happened.

Merge or clarify

"There's a cat that's like a cougar..."

Ok, so what's different about it in any way? "It's braver" (currently the only content on the page distinguishing the "onza") is not a species trait. It just indicates a hungry cougar. — LlywelynII 12:25, 10 January 2023 (UTC)