Talk:Onycha

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Removed the tag as this is not related to food or drink. Robina Fox (talk) 07:58, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Onycha of antiquity is uncertain

The article seemed to imply that onycha was the sea snail operculum. The onycha of antiquity cannot be identified with any degree of certainty. Produce that is referred to today as onycha is diverse, including labdanum, benzoin, bdellium, operculum, etc. Each of these products are only referred to as onycha simply because of those who believe the product was the original onycha of antiquity. I have taken the liberty to expand the description of onycha. If anyone objects please feel free to voice your opinion. Thank you. CWatchman (talk) 18:38, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One easy argument, destroys all other contenders

In words of the Rabban Simeon ben Gamliel (10 BCE – 70 CE): "The balsam was simply the resin that drips from balsam trees. Why was Karshina lye used? To rub the onycha to make it more pleasant. Why was Cyprus wine used? To soak the onycha to make it more pungent. Isn't water from [the springs of] Raglayim good for this? But it would have been disrespectful to bring water from [the springs of] Raglayim into the Holy Temple." Alas, what the heck needs Labdanum, Benzoin, Bdellium, etc. etc such a treatment, they are good aromatics by themselves and need no further operation. Rabban Simeon ben Gamliel lived just before the destruction of the Second Temple, by his position among the Levites, surely he saw the elaboration of the Ketoret, directly, why then, despise his opinion ? Further, Onycha as a horny Operculum, has an extensive use in the the world: Arabians, use it to prepare many Boukhours. Indians, use operculum to distill his Choya Nakh Chinese, compound incenses using operculum. Tibetans, has a long and elaborate process to treat the operculum, before his use as incense Japanese, has his "Kaiko", and everybody interested in Incense knows what is it... In the Uluburun shipwreck,(1400 B.C.)they found many Hexaplex trunculus opercula, among amphorae of Pistacia lentiscus resin. What do you think those operculae where traded for ? As you can see, the horny operculae of diverse species of sea snails, have been used as incense by different cultures and in many historical times. IT DOESN'T MATTER THE SPECIES, ALL THE HORNY OPERCULUM, WHEN SMOLDERED, SMELL THE SAME Sorry for the capital letters, but, if you haven't tried it, then shut up, or are you making profit selling Labdanum, Benzoin, etc etc. Sincerely Esteve (The Incense Exchange member) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.7.80.235 (talk) 16:53, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am inclined to agree that in the late 2nd Temple period, Shekheleth was taken to mean Onyx in Greek, which in turn at that time meant a seashell oil/material. The translators in the 3rd century BC of the LXX into Greek used the word Onyx for Shekheleth, the word in Exodus 30:34 in Hebrew. Onyx in the 1st century AD meant a seashell material, as Dioscorides' use of the term in the 1st century AD shows.

What is more curious is whether Shekheleth meant the same thing in the time of Exodus and the tabernacle period. It's true as you say that in the Uluburun shipwreck there were seashells, and that the shells were used as incense material. But Labdanum from the Rock Rose plant was also used as a major incense ingredient of the time period.

I find it hard to narrow down whether Shekheleth was a plant or seashell in c. 1300 BC-1000 BC as a result. Take for instance related words. There was a Semitic word called Shekhelim (plural) that referred to Peppergrasses (Lepidium genus), and the Wiki page on Onycha talks about Shekheleth meaning exude, distill, tear. It's true that Labdanum "exudes" resin, but it's also true that you can prepare incense resin from either seashells or Labdanum via some kind of "distillation," right? Tekhelet meant purple like what was made from the shells, and it reminds me of the word Shekheleth. Sahal in Arabic means coast, which reminds me of seashells, but the Arabic word for peel is Sahala, and the Wiki page on Onycha talks about Labdanum being peeled from goat/lamb hair/wool.

If you check all other 7 ingredients listed for the 4 oils and 3 other incense ingredients in Exodus 30, they are all plant materials or plant resins like frankincense. This inclines me a bit from the context to think of plant material, but it doesn't prove it. Rakovsky (talk) 21:37, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The word "onycha" was a later substitute for the original word "SHECHELETH"

The substance in question, which was one of the ingredients of the sacred incense in Exodus 30, was called Shecheleth.

Shecheleth was NEVER referred to as “onycha” during the time of the book of Exodus. It was not referred to as “onycha” until the book of Exodus was rewritten in Greek— a very long time after the Babylonian exile.

They may have replaced the word "shecheleth" with the word “onycha” because of the fingernail-like markings on the flower petals of the cistus or the resemblance of the black resin with the black onyx stone.

By the time of the second temple the identity of "shecheleth" was lost and was replaced in the Greek text with the word "onycha." This misleading word choice may have caused this ingredient to have been re-identified and replaced by the mollusk shell.

This would make shecheleth part of the incense ingredients of the first temple and the mollusk shell part of the ingredients of the second temple. At any rate, you may choose to use either ingredient which would still be regarded sacred relative to the temple period represented.

CWatchman (talk) 22:42, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article originally seemed to suggest the mollusk was the only candidate for the identity of onycha. This was inaccurate. I expanded the article by presenting various other contenders. Please feel free to add more material from scholarly sources.

CWatchman (talk) 15:09, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What if it was an actual fingernail

Makes sense that someone should cry when you removed it and makes sense you only do it for that one thing 2601:1C2:1380:2780:D8CC:1B52:345:D392 (talk) 07:29, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]