Talk:Once Upon a Time (The Prisoner)

Origins of Once Upon a Time---defending my revision

The previous text stated that this episode was always designed to be the first half of a two-part finale, initially out of a grand total of seven episodes.

Fact: Seven episodes could not have been an acceptable number to Sir Lew (later Lord) Grade for his ITC channel in 1966, as he was concerned with general syndication deals, which require larger packages. This is simply not open to reasonable and reality-based debate. The mistaken belief doubtlessly arose from misinterpretation of two later and separate statements from McGoohan. One was that he felt that only seven episodes were good and should "count" while the rest could be thrown into the rubbish. The other was his feeling that the miniseries format, which he acknowledged was not available to him then, would have probably been the best way to go. Both remarks were paraphrased in various print discussions of the programme over the following years (fortunately they were quoted once or twice each early on), and as they got repeated, they also got "corrupted" (in the linguistic sense of the word) into the idea that seven episodes was the original intent. The book I cited in my revision also gets this right---they don't mention the misinterpretation---and list the seven ("Arrival", "Chimes...", "Free For All", "Dance of the Dead", "Checkmate", and the finales). They go into detail about the origin and revising of "Once...", that the finish with, "What do you require?/Number One?/I'll take you," being filmed and tacked on after the second separate batch of 13 became an immediately produced four. This is even supported by internal evidence, that an actor is credited as playing "Number Eighty-Six" but does not appear, i.e., to make room for the new finish, his scene was cut out (perhaps he was part of the original finish, with The Prisoner walking out onto the Village grounds, similar to the end of "Chimes..."). However, I do admit to a problem with the book directly related to the point under discussion. The very last section of this publication is a collection of extracts from some of the original scripts. The authors explain that subsequent rewrites are not reflected in these scenes, nor are improvisations and ad--libs made during rehearsals or on the set. One of these is "Act IV" from "Degree Absolute/Once Upon a Time," which is too far off the final product to be a transcription of it, but is too close to be consistent with the claim that McGoohan and McKern largely improvised (Mike Gold in an article in Fantastic Films magazine). Most surprisingly, it includes the Supervisor/Prisoner exchange quoted above! If somebody can honestly tell me that the version in the recently published original scripts collections contains that as part of the initial teleplay, then things aren't how White and Ali reported them. However, I have problems with much of the material in that book's various appendices, including an alleged interview with McGoohan reprinted from a magazine, which contains so many statements in contradiction to known facts---he says they brought the episodes in on budget!---and various statements in the main text---he cites a budget figure significantly lower than the authors'---that it's hard to believe they knew it was there, but that it was added on by editors. Maybe the same thing holds true for the script extracts. Unless, of course, the collection.... Ted Watson 19:47, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE: Since I posted the above, there has been a discussion on some Wikipedia Talk page, one that despite intense effort I have been unable to track down today, which was in turn linked to an outside message board where it was established that some one had obtained a copy of this episode's original script that DID include the Prisoner/Supervisor exchange leading into Fall Out. This leaves me to believe that the script collection books would prove to have it that way as well, leaving one important question: Just when was Degree Absolute written? Given the fact that it was filmed well in advance--again, exactly when is not agreed upon--that is not going to make all that much difference. The final bit does not appear to be a late decision, so the latter part of the above is mostly worthless. I do, however, maintain that producing a total of seven episodes could never have been seriously considered, hence I am not reverting, and am uncertain just how the passage should be phrased. Ted Watson 19:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE 2: There is another fact about the script excerpts in White/Ali that I am astounded to discover that I left out. "Arrival" describes The Butler as tall, lean, and gives him dialogue, while "Once Upon a Time" refers to him as "Angelo", alluding to actor Angelo Muscat, a "little person" who played the role as mute! Irrefutably (unless one wishes to challenge the basic authenticity of one or the other), the first was written before Muscat was cast, the latter well after that event! At best this works against it being an early draft. May not be genuine at all. --Tbrittreid (talk) 21:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

"Prisoner" font

Regarding the comment about the "i" having a dot, contrary to the usual usage of the show's usual variation on the Albertus typeface: another error can be seen in the two episodes directed by "Joseph Serf" (McGoohan's pseudonym: the episodes are "Many Happy Returns" and "A Change of Mind"), in whose credits the "e" in "Serf" is closed (as in regular Albertus) rather than open (as typical for the show's font). A screenshot is visible here. 2fs 00:31, 30 July 2007 (UTC)