Talk:Olof Palme/Archive 1

Archive 1

Sweden prospering under the leadership of Olof Palme is disputed

The current article says, "Sweden is the prime example of social democracy, prospering considerably under the leadership of Olof Palme", but this is a statement most Swedish people with a liberal view would disagree with. In my opionion, Sweden changed rapidly during Palmes reign, and the economical decline that plagued us during the 70's, 80's and 90's, started when he decided to make a left turn in economic policies. Therefore I have marked that section as lacking a NPOV.

Nobody can honestly can say that Sweden prospered under Palme. The economic decline became severe during the 1980's and 1990's due private enterprise becoming government controlled, others private industies started leaving Sweden due to the increasing socialist policies. I agree with the above.--75.1.251.131 07:26, 31 May 2007 (UTC)Z

Olof Palme was a politician who everybody in Sweden has an opinion on, and those opinions are usually clearly divided into a love-hate split. This continues even today, and the opinions about his actions and the effects they had is similarly split. It also depends a lot on from which strata of society you look. For this reason, the truth of the matter is very much a matter of opinion, and I think it's unwise to comment about it at all in this context, as it simply can not be NPOV.212.85.68.44 11:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

The current article says nothing of the sort. You anon IPs should go out and get a life!Phase4 20:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

olofpalme.org

olofpalme.org is aboslutely not the official page. There is no official page! It should be change to unofficial. --212.247.27.165 19:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Changed to "unofficial".Phase4 19:52, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Someone just keeps changing it back all the fucking time! --212.247.27.126 23:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes - it is not the "Offical Olof Palme" page - BUT it is the offical page of the Olof Palme Archives, and that is what it says. (It is not some stupied "fan page", it is a webpage run by the Swedish Labor Movement, who takes cares of Palme's stuff!) Bronks 08:10, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Haha you got a bit owned there didn't you?

Wikiquote

A link to his quotes in Wikiquote is needed, but I haven't figured out how to add the Wikiquote box to an article yet. Anyone that can help out?

Starman 1976 18:41, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)

Editing Subjective Statements

My latest revert of this article was done for the purpose of changing statements that could be seen as subjective. I know that most of us are fans of the late Olof Palme, as am I, but to say that he "...had a profound effect on people's emotions..." and that the newer generations of Social Democrats "stood further to the left than their predecessors...", and present these as fact without citations goes against principles of objectivity. We cannot treat this as a work of political journalism. As soon as someone finds the necessary citations, these statements can stay, but until then, they are far too subjective, in my opinion, to be accepted. I will revert the enstatement of these statements until citations are provided. (EnglishEfternamn 01:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC))

Haunts Sweden...

"haunts Sweden and its neighbouring Scandinavian countries to this day"

What's that suppose to mean ? I live in one of the Scandinavian countries, Denmark, and we don't care much about Palme, to be honest. I would rephrase that. Martin Andersen

• I agree. Sounds like someone who thinks "Scandinavia" is just all one thing the same wrote it. I'll change it... Bronks 19 december 2005.

Well I'm Swedish, and I can't say I miss him much either... Jan Persson

Proposed changes

what's the problem with these changes? some comments, on what may be the issues:

• PLO - the article seemed to imply sweden financed the PLO, which is not true, and palme's support for the PLO (as opposed to palestinians) was more ambiguous. it did finance the ANC, though, and was very supportive to them.
• the student protests and the IB affair, especially, were significant. the IB scandal was probably the most damaging event in the whole of his career, and it should be mentioned.
• i don't mind the word "shocking" in the intro, but i thought it more important to point out that it was unsolved. that's why it "still haunts".
• christer pettersson's confession was never definite, and he repeatedly changed his mind. this must be pointed out.

Arre 02:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

• I think "unsolved" is better than "shocking", Bronks 17 January 2006

• I agree "unsolved" is better.
• Christer Petterson changes are also good. Interesting that he was arrested in December 1988, the same month that Pan Am Flight 103 was sabotaged. If I were a conspiracy theorist, and believed that South Africa was behind both the Palme murder and Bernt Carlsson's death on PA103, I might suspect that the timing of Petterson's arrest was a diversionary tactic!
• I hadn't previously heard about the IB affair: this definitely should be covered. Was Bertil Wedin ever an IB member, I wonder?
• The PLO change is also good.
• For the rest, I suggest we keep the "Conspiracy theories" heading and retain the text, as is, of the "South Africa connection" section.Phase1 15:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

• pettersson: okay, though i wouldn't make too much of the libyan connection :-)
• IB affair: it is still very big in sweden, since no-one was ever brought to justice for it -- except the two journalists who revealed IB's existence (Jan Guillou and Peter Bratt), and their whistle-blower in the organization, Håkan Isacsson, who all served jail time for treasonous espionage. i can't find anything on Wedin and the IB affair. IB was also a military and government operation, outside of SÄPO, the secret police, where Wedin had been involved. that was partly the reason for the scandal, since it circumvented all established constitutional order on government espionage, and was basically set up by the executive branch (i.e. the top social dems, including Palme, Sten Andersson - who was involved with the Oslo Accords - and others) and the defense staff with no authorization from anyone.
• I don't think that the Pettersson case qualifies as a conspiracy theory. Maybe the headline could be changed to fit both possibilities - "theories and conspiracy theories", or something like that? Also remember that both Victor Gunnarsson and the Kurdish connection was taken very seriously in Sweden for a while.

Arre 03:24, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

• By introducing PA 103, I didn't intend to make any Libyan connection to Petterson: it was the possibility of a South African link that came to mind. And of course if there were such a link then the Petterson case would qualify as a conspiracy theory.
• Do you wish to insert the agreed changes into the article?Phase1 12:27, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

• ok. Arre 19:52, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Ten edits today by Tazmaniacs – mainly to the P2 "conspiracy theory" section – have unbalanced the whole article by doubling its size and making it virtually unreadable. Moreover, much of the material introduced seems to have been directly copied from other websites which would render this article open to a possible copyvio. Doubtless, the current P2 section is in need of some improvement and Tazmaniacs is welcome to propose changes deemed necessary.Phase1 14:04, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Create a Separate Article on the Murder

Maybe it is time to create a separate article on the murder and investigation with its many different leads, like the one on the Swedish wiki (sv:Palmemordet). This article is already more than half its size on the murder. I think this article should concentrate on Olof Palme's life, views and actions, and that it should mention the murder more briefly and instead have a wikilink to a separate article dealing with just the murder. -Bronks 26 feb 2006.

Just like there is a separate article on the Kennedy assasination. (John F. Kennedy assassination). -Bronks 26 feb 2006.

I just added a little about the recent development. And I agree, there should be a separate article about the murder. I'm too lazy to log in, somebody else can do it. Roger

I agree. Some translation from the Swedish page on the murder would be great too. But let's wait until it goes off the front page to do any big changes. --Apoc2400 12:19, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I think this is a very good idea. Who wants to start translating? Astor Piazzolla 13:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Following the "revelation" a month ago (which has since proved to be bogus) there is, in my view, less of a case for the starting of a separate article on Palme's murder. The current self-contained article is not excessive in length, and can be added to if need be.Phase4 15:02, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

• I think the problem is that the present article on Olof Palme is almost only about the murder. I think there should be an expanded article on Palme himself, life, politics, legacy... and then a separate article with focus on the assassination and the different leads' etc. We can start by just cutting this one in half.

-Bronks 16:37, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Before "just cutting this one in half" let's first have a look at your proposed "expanded article on Palme himself, life, politics, legacy": sounds as though it could be quite an interesting addition!Phase4 18:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

New evidence ridiculed in Dagens Nyheter

In the current version of the articles, one can read

According to a documentary program aired on the Swedish television channel SVT in February 2006, associates of Petterson claimed that he had confessed to them his role in the murder... In light of these latest revelations, Swedish police undertook to review Palme's case. However, the newspaper Dagens Nyheter of February 28, 2006 ridiculed the TV documentary, alleging that the filmmaker had fabricated statements and had omitted contradictory sources.

This is true. but one should add the fact that it was not the newspaper itself that ridiculed the new statements, but it was to televisions journalists who in a letter-to-the-editor did this. At the same time it should be mentioned that these two journalists run a somewhat different story on the Palme case, more leaning towards the right-wing-extremist trace. Astor Piazzolla 13:49, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Commence Olof Palme assassination article?

I just did. Should the article be a translation of the Swedish article on the case, or should the writings from the main article be incorporated? Astor Piazzolla 13:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

And now it's been suggested for speedy deletion... Anybody wanna write something to it...? Astor Piazzolla 14:16, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with creating a new article, but I don't see the point of creating it as a substub. Move the section on the murder from this article to the new one. It would be preferable to write a new article. I suppose it would be possible to translate the Swedish article, which looks OK for being on the Swedish Wikipedia. up+land 18:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Please spare us a translation of the Swedish article! If you can't write one in English, forget it.Phase4 21:30, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I didn't intend to upset anybody, I just thought it might be of interest to have a separate article on the topic. Sorry for causing trouble. Astor Piazzolla 22:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about Phase4, but I'm not upset. I agree that writing from scratch is best, mainly to make sure that everything is properly sourced, but the Swedish article could probably be used as a starting point, as long as everything is checked along the way. Try the new cite.php footnote system which is very easy to use. up+land 04:44, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't matter. I'm leaving WP, intending to read real books and discuss with real people. I really appreciate your humble, tolerant and welcoming attitude here, see for instance what Phase4 wrote above:

Please spare us a translation of the Swedish article! If you can't write one in English, forget it. Astor Piazzolla 07:38, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

My comments could have been phrased more diplomatically but were meant for Uppland who is not upset, apparently. I would be sorry if Astor Piazzolla really had taken umbrage because of what I wrote.Phase4 12:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not enthusiastic about the Swedish article, but what do you particularly dislike about it? up+land 12:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm agnostic about the Swedish article: it's just that, as I said in the Create a separate article on the murder section above, I don't see the need now for a separate article.Phase4 14:13, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

It's supposedly one of the largest criminal investigations in world history. There is, after all, a separate article (+ numerous subarticles) on the John F. Kennedy assassination. But I think another reason to separate the murder, even without the longer & improved versions of both parts of the current article that we would all like to see, is that most of it has little to do with anything but the last few hours of Palme's life. It makes no sense to let the whole biography of Palme get overwhelmed with all that murder and conspiracy stuff. up+land 16:07, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I've always said. As of now, the Palme article is almost only about the murder and different theories... Bronks 26/3 2006

Fine, so we're all agreed: the Palme biography needs to be expanded to cover much more of himself, his life, policy and legacy. Then, once that has been achieved, we can think about how we can separate out the known facts about his murder, the sequence of events in the official investigation and, because nothing has yet been proven, all the intricate, competing theories as to who actually did it, and why. That's quite a tall order!

But who, as the necessary first step, is volunteering to suitably expand the Palme biography?Phase4 19:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Humanitarians

Why is the word humanitarians quoted in "(with the possible exception of the two "humanitarians" Raoul Wallenberg and Dag Hammarskjöld)". This seems to imply that Wallenberg and Hammarskjöld were not humanitarians. While there may be some dispute about their actions, I think there is a strong consensus that both men meet the definition of the word. --Peter Robinett 20:20, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

On the contrary, Peter Robinett, the proposition that "politician" Olof Palme was the most famous Swede is qualified by the possible exception of the two "humanitarians" Wallenberg & Hammarskjöld. The implication was simply that the latter two were perhaps equally famous Swedes as Palme, not that their humanitarian status was being called into question.Phase4 23:36, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Palmes was not the most famous swede by far. He does not belong in the same category as Wallenberg and Hammarskold. These two were famous for the common good in the world, while Palme was a much smaller and insignificant politician. Palme was infamous due to his extreme left wing politics and pro-communist support for North Vietnam, Kuba, Robert Mugabe, Marcel, and many more. The two other names should be removed from this location, they cannot and should not be compared. There is quite a bit of pro-Palme bias in this article, many other areas should be scrutnized and corrected.--75.1.251.131 07:25, 31 May 2007 (UTC)Z

Olof Palme is an honory black man in my book. He stood up to those devilish honkeys in South Africa. And what dose South Africa do to him, they shoot him and made it look like a black guy did it. RIP Olof Palme you like our Lydon B Johnson. - BlackBrotherX7

Strangnet edit

To the sentence "The appeal succeeded mainly because the murder weapon had not been found, Strangnet added ...and because the witness line-up with wife Lisbet, when she pointed out Pettersson, was found to be compromised - she knew beforehand that a known alcoholic and substance abuser had been arrested." The addition – if it is to stand – needs to be sourced. Please provide a citation.Phase4 10:41, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll look into if there's an article online - otherwise it should be found in the sentencing from the court from what I understand. It's also mentioned in the book by Poutiainen "Inuti Labyrinten" ("Inside the labyrinth") from 1994 --Strangnet 05:28, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I found a passage in the special commission's report on the criminal investigation into the murder [1] (page 736) that highlights the fact that the high court couldn't find the widow Lisbet's identification of Pettersson to be valid due to her remark that "it's obvious who's the alcoholic" when she identified number 8 (Pettersson) in the line-up as the shooter. --Strangnet 06:27, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't have any soruces to refer to right now, but I think everyone in Sweden knows that Lisbet Palme's testemony was considered poor, becouse the police had already told her that they guy they had in costady was an alcholic and a small time criminal, and when Lisbet saw the line upp she spotted Petterson and said something like: "that looks like an alochlic, it is him!" (Also all the other people in the line up were cops and still wearing their black unifor pants.) Bronks 10:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The source referred to is in Swedish. Apart from apparently putting Lisbet Palme in a disadvantageous light, it doesn't actually add anything to the text of the (English) article. Proverbially, I suggest we "let sleeping dogs lie".Phase4 22:53, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

There are three main points why Pettersson was acquitted: the missing gun, the missing motive and the fact that the court didn't find Lisbet's witness testimony pointing out a shooter to be credible (both regarding the line-up as well as the stress she must've been under when the shots were fired). I think all three should be mentioned. I don't think the lack of translated official government material should disqualify facts from being entered. "Letting sleeping dogs lie" is exactly what the whole investigation has been about the last 20 years ;) --Strangnet 03:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Strangnet is obviously right and I really don't get why Phase4 is objecting to including this point. It should of course be sourced, as should everything else in the article, but I don't see why one of the most well-known and debated issues with the investigation and trial should not be mentioned in the article. Phase4, I got the impression before (when we were discussing the article on the Swedish Wikipedia) that you read Swedish - was I wrong? up+land 05:57, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Linguistic concerns were resolved by today's contribution by Strangnet, which also removed my lingering doubts on the matter. I've therefore incorporated the "three main points" into a revised edit which I hope is acceptable.Phase4 14:13, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Soman's comments revealing his/her lack of knowledge

Soman recently erased my factually correct passages with the explanation of (to my knowledge, no foreign state treated the Baltic SSRs as disputed territory. One could say that Petsamo and Kaliningrad are occupied territories as well, by same logic.)

Unfortunately this proves that Soman has not the simplest knowledge of the matter. In fact, the US announced already in July 1940, that they do not recognise the annexation de jure. [2] No democratic Western state did it ever since. Sweden recognised the annexation de fact and was nearing de jure recognition, but this does not change the matter. Thus, the Baltic SSRs have never legally existed (ex iniuria iuria non obiter, is it?). I've heard that in the US some maps were printed with the Baltics marked as a territories annexed by the USSR, without international recognition.

I'd be glad if User:Soman gave me his/her sources for the alternate view.--Constanz - Talk 15:16, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I was unaware of the US decision. But, wherein lies the distinction between US line 'not to recognise annexation de jure' and recognising the annexation 'de facto'? --Soman 15:23, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

These terms are elementary. Also, no state except for Sweden (and, I wonder if also Finland) even recognised de facto. --Constanz - Talk 15:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

• Term separatism can not be used with regards to the Baltic States, as already noted, de jure these states had never ceased to exist. They had legally never become part of the USSR, thus they couldn't seek for 'separation'. As Rein Taagepera has noted, the term Estonian SSR is legally equal to Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.--Constanz - Talk 15:44, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Holidays on Fårö, an island that is off-limits to foreigners

Olof Palme spent his holidays on the island of Fårö, which at that time was off limits to foreigners. Seems to me both relevant and NPOV. One may draw conclusions either defending this by saying that it was military area or not defending it by saying that a fighter against apartheid spent his holidays in a 'swedes only' holiday resort, but the mere fact can not be denied so I put it in the article again.

Rindert 06:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Mention of his choice of holiday destination sits very strangely with the rest of the Olof Palme article. You say it seems both relevant and NPOV: as it stands, I don't think it is even worthy of mention. Are you saying that Palme holidayed on Fårö every year of his life, or just occasionally, or between certain crucial dates? If the edit is to stay, you will need to give a much fuller explanation and please provide a source (preferably an English-language one) for what you say is a "fact".Phase4 12:44, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Many islands in Sweden (and other contries) are restricted for forigners due to military interest. It has nothing to do with racism. The Stockholm archipelago is full of islands like that! Bronks 14:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

If you would have read what I said you would have noticed that I just mentioned the fact. User Bronks is the one to introduce the word racism here. By the way, the fact that many more places in Sweden than just Fårö were off limits to non-swedes does not change the fact that Fårö was off limits to foreigners. It is, again, strange and relevant that Olof Palme chose for his holidays a place where he knew non-swedes were not allowed. Hagiography is not a goal to be persued when describing Olof Palmes life. His holidays were a part of his life. Rindert 20:46, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

You talk, Rindert, but all I hear is mumbo-jumbo. Bronks was right to remove your very strange edit from the Olof Palme article.Phase4 20:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't see the point in starting insulting me. I am not going to insult anyone so this discussion is over. Rindert 21:02, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure most places that the american presidents visit for there holidays are "off-limit" to forigners too - as well as for most U.S. citizens!!! Bronks 21:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Who dare compare Olof Palme Murder with JFK Murder??

I'll say: aside from comparing a people starting war and infinite killings each and every 10 years, with one that didn't war for 200 years, Olof Palme didn't be on the border of starting WW3 because of megalomania and full of drugs. The comparison is deeply shaming and not NPOV. Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 07:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

While I tend to personally agree with you, I removed it for another reason; the reference does not back up a comparison between OP and JFK. mceder (u t c) 15:15, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The Swedish journalist Claes Borgnäs, who has written and produced much material on the Palme assasination, has said there are similarities between Palme and JFK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.208.209.31 (talk) 14:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Athol Visser

I have just completed a book by Wayne Thallon (Devil Incarnate) about a British born mercenary (Athol Visser) who's family finally settled in Rhodesia. He made his way through the ranks of certain overt and covert army units and orginizations. He claims that he orchestrated the assasination of Olof Palme while woking for a secret South african orginization who apposed any anti-apartheid movement. Assasanations were carried out by Athol Visser against foreign and domestic targets in Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rolandram (talk • contribs) 10:54, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I've added a piece about Athol Visser to the Olof Palme assassination article.Phase4 16:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Date of death?

He was shot February 28 but pronounced dead March 1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.227.161.87 (talk) 15:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I made edits to that effect in June 2007, but they seem to have been reverted by Slebbert in July (regarding end of term) and by Slarre very recently (regarding date of death). I can't see any good reason for these reversions. He was pronounced dead at 00:06, so it might of course be conceivable that he did die before midnight, but going by anything other than the official record would be mere speculation. -- Jao (talk) 16:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

According to official Swedish national registration records, Palme's death date was 28 February (see the discussion at the Swedish Wikipedia). Also Nationalencyklopedin[3] and Encyclopædia Britannica[4] refers to his death date as 28 February. /Slarre (talk) 17:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Now that is a good reason, I feel a little bad for not checking the records, which I could easily have done. I have no explanation for the apparent discrepancy, so I'll not meddle in this again (at least not unless I should happen to find one). -- Jao (talk) 17:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The opening paragraph makes it sound like his was only Prime Minsiter until 1976, whereas the mention of his assassination (and the article on his assassination) refer to him being the Prime Minister when he was killed (which I am sure is correct). I would change it but am not sure how the other dates tie up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Window Mattress (talk • contribs) 17:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The paragraph quite clearly (and correctly) states that he was "the Prime Minister of Sweden with a Privy Council Government from 1969 to 1976 and a cabinet government from 1982 until his assassination in 1986" (my bold). Perhaps an additional "with" or "again with" after the "and" would make it better worded? -- Jao (talk) 17:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I just saw your correction to my earlier change. Sorry about the mistake of saying that it was continuous. Window Mattress (talk) 17:20, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

No problem. And by the way, it's much clearer now than before your edit. -- Jao (talk) 18:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes on a third reading it does correctly state that, but I don't think the wording is as unambiguous as it could be - otherwise I would never have read it incorrectly twice, and would therefore never have made the comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Window Mattress (talk • contribs) 21:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I made a small change, which I believe is slightly clearer. Window Mattress (talk) 14:22, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Legacy in Sweden

The former head (1983-1993) of the Swedish Trade Union Confederation, Stig Malm, in 2006 expressed surprise that "so few Social Democrat politicians today refer to what happened during the almost 17 years during which Olof Palme led the party" . A leading Swedish daily newspaper noted that most books about Palme are about his murder, and perhaps his legacy suffers because of all the attention on the murder . But there are some solid and plausible reasons for the somewhat weak interest in Palme today in Sweden:

• The domestic policies that Mr. Palme helped implement as prime minister are to a large extent being abandoned - there is talk of "the abandoned legacy of Olof Palme" . Actions that took place during his time as prime minister, such as the nationalization of all drug stores in 1970, are now being undone by the ruling center-right government without much protest from Mr. Palme´s Social Democratic Party.
• Former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt, a political opponent of Mr. Palme, has written a lengthy critique of Mr. Palme´s policies and views. As reasons for the low interest in palme today, Bildt cites Palme´s relatively poor performance in elections compared to his predecessors, his failed wage-earners funds and "his attitude towards the socialist systems of the Soviet empire". Mr. Bildt ends his piece with the statement that Palme´s "world was a different one - we have moved on" . That is a statement that the left, right and center of Swedish politics today probably can agree on.
• In connection with a 1977-78 prostitution scandal involving the then Minister of Justice Lennart Geijer, Mr. Palme made certain statements that have later proven to have been deliberate lies. This came to light when documents were declassified in 1991, after Mr. Palme´s death
• In the early 1990´s, declassified documents showed that Prime Minister Palme, as well his predecessor Tage Erlander, had presided over active cooperation with US military despite Sweden´s official position of neutrality and non-alignment. President Kennedy had even issued a secret national security guarantee in 1962 which was in force until the end of the Cold War. The existence of the guarantee was in direct contradiction to Mr. Palme´s and Sweden´s official stance of non-alignment and neutrality. It also appeared that Mr. Palme´s sometimes strident criticism of US policies and his active support of it´s enemies (e.g. North Vietnam and Cuba) was only possible precisely because the security guarantee was a secret. The picture that emerged of Mr. Palme when these documents came out was not flattering.
• There are also questions about Mr. Palme´s involvement a weapons purchase by India, a deal now commonly referred to as the Bofors Scandal If Mr. Palme did indeed agree to the alleged terms, it would have been in contravention of Swedish government policy to not sell to belligerents actively involved in a conflict.
• The many proven lies and hypocrisy have left many wondering whether alleged lies and actions of hypocrisy might also be true.

These could be some of the reasons why leaders even in the Swedish Social Democratic Party, of which Mr. Palme was a member, are unlikely to mention Mr. Palme by name in a speech other than in bringing up his unsolved murder. Mr. Palme´s legacy is highly controversial, so is Richard Nixon´s - neither of their respective parties today talk about them much because doing so is unlikely to bring in new voters or to energize their political base. Raskrask (talk) 23:43, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

References

Pronunciation with IPA

Being a native Swede, I am thinking of adding the pronunciation of his name rendered with the International Phonetic Alphabet, in addition to the already existing sound file. Should I?

/Jonte93 (talk) 06:27, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

This is old, but i say go for it. Norse names are hard to pronounce when you are used to reading english. Italic text

Theory that for some strange reason was not investigated by the police

The "police trail" http://perkvist.mpbloggar.se/category/palmemordet/ in swedish. Check it out! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.52.79.24 (talk) 09:01, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Murdered by members of the police?

There is an article in Die Zeit form 1996 bringing strong arguments in favor of a conspiracy of right-wing members of the police force to commit the murder: [5] Should this be added to the article? What were the arguments against this lead and why was it ultimately dismissed?  Andreas  ^(T) 01:53, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

See Anti Avsan. I plan to transfer the information that is written there to this article.  Andreas  ^(T) 14:52, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

assassination ???

He was murdered but it may not have been an assassination. Assassination involved deliberate intent. It is claimed that the prime suspect Christer Pettersson, may have killed him by accident as he had intended to kill someone else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BernardZ (talk • contribs) 17:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Cambodia

The text reads Palme and Fidel Castro issued "a joint statement vindicating Pol Pot's takeover in Cambodia". It is sourced to an editorial and a book by an opponent, Per Ahlmark. Both sources are in Swedish, but the editorial does not appear to use that phrasing. A 2001 article by Ahlmark says, "They even confirmed their happiness that the struggles for freedom of "the Vietnamese and Cambodian peoples have been crowned with victory.""[6] It seems doubtful that they would have mentioned Pol Pot because the nominal leader was Norodom Sihanouk. Before reporting what was said we need a reliable source and any interpretation must be supported by inline citations. I will therefore remove the sentence. TFD (talk) 05:13, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

link from english to swedish

The link to Swedish article from the English article going to Bordellhärvan". I tried to fix but I cant! This is really wrong and must be fixed! Really a disgrace and the kind of things that gives wikipedia a bar reputation! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonicsonia (talk • contribs) 19:09, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done Added colon to link to Sw. WP.  Andreas  ^(T) 22:03, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

extramarital affairs?

I think this bit could be more clear. These claims have _not_ been proved, and the first one is only based on what Shirley MacLaine said. I think the first sentence could be re-written from

"Palme and American actress Shirley MacLaine were lovers for several years during Palme's years as a prime minister, with Palme all the while entertaining many other affairs, among others with a wealthy communist woman, according to MacLaine"

to a much more clear

"American actress Shirley MacLaine claims she and Palme were lovers [...]" removing the "according to MacLaine" at the end. None of the sources mention anything else than Shirleys account as a source for the claims, and it should be made more clear that this is her claims only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.239.121.157 (talk) 10:07, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I have removed this section altogether, as it gives WP:UNDUE weight to one individual's (very small minority viewpoint) unverifiable claims about a dead person. The citations given don't demonstrate wide coverage in media about her claims. --hydrox (talk) 18:39, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Well done for taking it out. --John (talk) 18:54, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Request for Comments

There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Statesman?

Isn't is rather subjective to call Palme a "politician, statesman "?Royalcourtier (talk) 00:40, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Removal of references to Mugabe and Baltics

This had appeared: " Palme was on good terms with Robert Mugabe, the autocratic strongman and president of Zimbabwe who was for many years a popular figure among left-leaning intellectuals, particularly in Europe. "

I removed it as at best an anachronism (and at worst a smear); at the time of Palme's assassination Mugabe was on "good terms" with most world leaders, as he was seen as a stabilizing force. It would in fact be surprising if Palme was not on good terms with Mugabe in the early 1980s. His decline in popularity in the West (not just among "left-leaning intellectuals," where his popularity was never exclusively based) occurred after Palme's death. See Wikipedia's own entry on the history of Zimbabwe for a more balanced view. Doprendek (talk) 08:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Doprendek (talk • contribs) 06:59, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Mugabe had it's critics even before he became more unpopular. The Marxist Mugabe was a darling among especially left-leaning politicians. So that should be in the article, if it's properly referenced. --197.229.145.237 (talk) 21:30, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

"Though he would never shy from supporting the PLO and communist insurgents in Latin America, Palme never endorsed the dissident movements inside the USSR, including neighboring republics Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. While the Swedish right-wing opposition supported Baltic national liberation movements, Palme accused the members of the Moderate Party of "returning to that crusading spirit aiming to 'liberate' Eastern Europe that prevailed in conservative groups in the West during the Cold War" and also accused them of creating a "danger to the safety of the Swedish security policy". "

I removed this; it is not only the biased language shown by the use of an absolute ("Though he would never shy...") and unclear if potentially inflammatory wording ("communist insurgents in Latin America"--which?); the main problem is that the writer's own source suggests a different account than was written. See http://www.rel.ee/eng/communism_crimes.htm , where is written: "But Palme only supported the Baltic freedom fight publicly on one single occasion, when he as leader of the opposition made the main speech at the celebration of the Estonian day of independence in the Concert Hall in Stockholm in February 1980.

Thus the Swedish social democrats managed in the eighties to get caught in a bind on the Baltic issue. On the one hand Palme in his speech had demanded "national independence" for the Baltic states which made it difficult for him and other social democrats to critizise others who demanded human and national rights for our Baltic neighbours. On the other hand Palme definitely did not want to annoy the Soviet leaders by stating what probably was his real opinions. For that reason he never answered any of the innumerable columns where I [the author, hardly an independent source] and others called for his support for the Baltic freedom fight. "

In other words: Palme had supported Estonian independence, publicly; some were apparently unhappy that he did not further back his words with actions that they favor. So, Olof Palme is shown to be a ... politician.

The only clear action on the international stage taken by Sweden under Palme that is noted in the article mentions his covert defense arrangements with the West.

I'm not saying that Palme's stands on the rocky road of the Non-Aligned aren't worthy of mention. But they should be given a more objective reading in the context of typical actions (or non-actions) of the sort of thing politicians off all stripes tend to do, just about anywhere, I would think, per my understanding of the Wikipedia guidelines. They certainly shouldn't suggest that matters went further than reported in an already-critical source, I would think.Doprendek (talk) 08:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Communist insurgents like the Sandinistas. He also supported terrorist Communists fronts like the ANC. So what's the point? --41.146.19.71 (talk) 21:34, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I agree with all that Doprendek writes and the editing action taken.Phase4 (talk) 10:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Education

I made a minor edit although someone may think differently. It said he attended the Kenyon College of Ohio in 1947-1948 and graduated in less than a year. I looked at the link and it says no such thing. It says he graduated in 1948 and that is it. He may have graduated in 'less than a year', but that was after matriculating at the University of Sweden.Mylittlezach (talk) 17:30, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Also, didn't he study at SHL in Sigtuna (Sigtuna Humansitiska Laroverket), more accurately described as a boarding scheool (not residential high school)? I don't know what the Sigtuna School of Liberal Arts is.

> He studied at the Sigtuna School of Liberal Arts, one of Sweden's few residential high schools, and passed the university entrance examination with high marks at the age of 17. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rbhman (talk • contribs) 16:03, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Olof Palme attended Sigtuna Humanistiska Läroverk, a coeducational boarding school. the term residential high school was nor t used in the forties. ¨¨¨¨ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.65.204.171 (talk) 21:14, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Popularity

The last paragraph of the section Political Career contains the wording "He was very popular among the left, but harshly detested by most liberals and conservatives.[8]"

How does this make any sense? The note [8] does not seem even to say this, and if ít did, I think it should still be deleted as contributing nothing but confused thinking. I don't know if the Weasel Words concept applies, but maybe Doublespeak, or Newspeak. Rags (talk) 04:13, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Military service

Discrepancy between the text here and the text on the Swedish article (see https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Palme) According to the Swedish article, he did his service in the cavalry/ranger part of the Swedish army 1944 - 1948 and became a lieutenant after a combat course in 1956. Neither article has a source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.13.245.188 (talk) 13:12, 18 October 2018 (UTC)