Talk:October 2023 Northern Syria clashes

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Kurdistan Low‑importance

	Kurdistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Kurdistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Kurdistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.KurdistanWikipedia:WikiProject KurdistanTemplate:WikiProject KurdistanKurdistan articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Middle East / Post-Cold War C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Middle Eastern military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Syria Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Syria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Syria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SyriaWikipedia:WikiProject SyriaTemplate:WikiProject SyriaSyria articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Turkey Low‑importance

	Turkey portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the topics of Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in to an extended confirmed account (granted automatically to accounts with 500 edits and an age of 30 days)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Asayish naming

@CatmanBw: In response to your question "Hello. Just curious. What's your reasoning behind changing "Internal Security Forces" to "Asayish" in October 2023 Northern Syria clashes ?" I've changed it because it is the article's common name, see WP:COMMONNAME. Ecrusized (talk) 18:17, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ecrusized Oh okay. That means we have to change everything else on their to match that right? For example: "Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria" to "Rojava". And "Syrian Armed Forces" to "SAA". "Syrian Democratic Forces" to "SDF". CatmanBw (talk) 18:22, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@CatmanBw: No, it means sticking to whatever the original name of the article is. Ecrusized (talk) 18:23, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ecrusized: Oh okay. That's reasonable. CatmanBw (talk) 18:27, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ecrusized I have moved the page to Internal Security Forces (Rojava regions) since this is the common name usually used in the news and the sources quoted here. I also updated this article accordingly. CatmanBw (talk) 18:46, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's not a good idea. The page has been called Asayish since it was created in 2014. This move would require a move discussion beforehand. Ecrusized (talk) 18:49, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ecrusized Ok then. CatmanBw (talk) 18:51, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Casualties

@CatmanBw: In the first ref SOHR lists the casualties from airstrikes, 8 casualties in Hasakah, 6 Asayish, 2 in a military car. 5 casualties in Aleppo, 2 tunnel workers (civilians) and 3 SDF. In addition to 2 other civilians. And it states that this adds up to 15. The second ref only counts the ground bombardment casualties which are not included in the first ref. Hope this clears things out. Ecrusized (talk) 19:48, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ecrusized: SOHR mentions 2 killed in a car near a military base (Not a military car; could be civilian) So all in all it should add up to 10 so far. CatmanBw (talk) 20:12, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@CatmanBw:I didn't think those were civilians since civilians have been listed separately: "9 in Hasakah, namely: 6 members of the internal security forces, 2 in targeting a car near a military facility in mushairfa, and 1 civilian in the village of Tel Habash in Amuda." Ecrusized (talk) 20:20, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes; that means their status is unknown. Usually SOHR confirms which faction they belong to if they find out. CatmanBw (talk) 20:21, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I will move it under civilians. Ecrusized (talk) 20:22, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure; it's up to you. You could also leave them out completely until their status is found out. SOHR updates all this information later anyways. CatmanBw (talk) 20:24, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reliability of Casualty Sources

SOHR is not a reliable source for casualties. At least add Turkish claims as well so people can see the overall situation better. Between the given dates Turkey announced a single personnel KIA. Also, after the strike on Asayish HQ YPG themselves claimed that more than 30 of their members had died from that strike alone. YPG’s casualties are far below the real numbers whereas Turkish casualties are far above what was released to the public by the TAF. NoTalkingAllowed (talk) 16:27, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]