Talk:Oakland California Temple/GA2

GA Review

Passed. Z1720 (talk) 21:12, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Z1720 (talk · contribs) 03:31, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will begin this review shortly. Z1720 (talk) 03:31, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Overall comments:

Citations are not necessary in the lede, per WP:LEDECITE
"as part of a project announced" Is there a significance to this project? Does it have a name?
"includes a visitors' center as well as a garden with" as well as -> and
The history section should include information about the Open House mentioned in the infobox. If there is information about the completion of construction, a grand opening, or other information of that sort, it should also be included in the history. Anything that can be added to the history of the building from 1962 to 2017 should be added.
"The temple today" Should be renamed to avoid MOS:CURRENCY. Perhaps this section should be merged with "Design" so that the architecture and the layout of the interior and exterior are in one section.
"Adjacent to the temple is the visitors' center (opened 1992)" Information about this opening should be in the "History" section
"Visitors can also learn about the temple, have questions answered, and learn more about the LDS Church." I don't think this sentence is needed and seems promotional of the site.
The "Christius" statue is creating an MOS:SANDWICH of the images and should be remedied.
"The temple today" uses lots of one-paragraph sections which should be merged together per MOS:OVERSECTION. Perhaps this will be remedied when the information is merged with design.
"The cultural hall was used years ago" Be exact with these dates.
"Even so, the fault zone is regarded as dangerous," Delete "Even so"
"Many members of the local community frequently visit the FHC." Delete, this is promotional language and not necessary.
In the "Design" section, there is lots of commentary about the design, but not a lot of description. When this is merged, try to reduce the amount of commentary. You might also want to create a new "Reception" section for commentary about the building.
"The church said that the Oakland temple (like other temples) was built using the "finest craftsmanship and materials available."" This is promotional and should be removed.
"Presidents" section should be expanded to include all presidents and information about the history of the position, or it should be removed
"It is currently directed by John Pew." per MOS:CURRENT, this should be changed to something like "In XXXX, John Pew became the director of the choir."
The "Organisations" section should be expanded with information, or merged with another section.
The images in the "Gallery" section should be interspersed within the article, instead of at the end, per WP:GALLERY.
I suggest archiving the websites used in the references using IABot
Recommend having access dates for all references with a website.

When the above are addressed, I will continue with a more detailed source review. Z1720 (talk) 03:52, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your recommendations have been taken into account and the Oakland California Temple page has been updated. Please take another look at the page for its subsequent GA review. Thank you! Yoscotty (talk) 19:40, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoscotty: Some additional comments below:

The lede is still far too short. The lede should cover all major aspects of the article: if the article has a heading for a section, there should be information from that heading in the lede. Also, more information about the history can be in the lede.
Lots of the prose in the History section feels promotional and can be removed. The "Open House" paragraph can be reduced to "In October 1964, the temple was opened for visitors to tour, and it was officially opened on November 17, 1964." Prose like "This provided an opportunity for individuals from various backgrounds to explore the temple's architecture and gain insight into the associated practices and beliefs" is too promotional.
Details about what was said in the dedicatory prayer should be removed, and just mentioned that it opened with the prayer.
"On February 23, 2017, the church announced that beginning February 2018, the temple would close for renovations that would be completed in 2019." Take out information about the announcement, and start with when the temple was closed for renovations.
Take a look at the rest of the article with particular detail to remove promotional language. Take a look at some other architecture articles (particularly featured articles) to determine what needs to be included and what language is too much focused on trying to get others to visit the site.
The images are scattered in random places, and some might need to be removed. Images should be placed next to the sections that talk about them. The images of the Map of the Temple and Temples of California should definitely be moved.

I'll let you take a look at this. Ping me when ready. Z1720 (talk) 15:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The page has been reworked according to your instructions. Please, take a look at the page let me know if I did not catch anything that needs to be fixed. Thank you again! Yoscotty (talk) 18:25, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments below:

"The temple's history dates back to 1847 when church president Brigham Young said that "in the process of time, the shores of the Pacific may yet be overlooked from the Temple of the Lord."" -> "A temple on the Pacific coast of the United States was first proposed by church president Brigham Young in 1847." The quote is not necessary here.
Suggest merging the second and third paragraphs of the history section.
"According to the church, almost 400,000 visitors attended the open house." I don't think this sentence is important and can be removed.

"A visitors' center was then constructed adjacent to the temple in 1992." Suggest putting this in the subsequent paragraph.
"Besides the three resident organizations and the temple pageant, many Brigham Young University performing arts groups have performed in the auditorium." I don't think this sentence is needed and can be removed. If it is to be kept, it needs a citation.
"There is also a Temple Hill Public Affairs Council which seeks to use the resources on the location to raise awareness of the church and its mission." I would rename the "Presidents" section to "Administration" or something similar, then move this sentence to that section. I would also expand upon this sentence to describe this council's connection to the temple (governance, awareness, etc.)
"Set on 18.1 acres" Suggest using the convert template to also have this displayed in metric.
"The FSC offers volunteer assistance to individuals interested in tracing their family history. On average, four out of five visitors to the FSC are not members of the church." This is off-topic and possibly moved to the FSC article.
The last paragraph of the "Visitors' centre" concerning the geneology information should be removed as off topic.
I think the whole Christmas section can be removed: it seems to be sourced to primary or COI sources, which do not demonstrate their notability. If this is important enough to include on Wikipedia, someone independent of the temple should have written about it.
" reaches 170 feet." Use the convert template to show metric measurements, too.

Those are my thoughts. This is looking a lot better. Z1720 (talk) 22:16, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your notes! I put more citations in the Christmas section–let me know if that is better for notability. The quote from Brigham Young has been removed from the lead section. Information about statistics for four out of five visitors to the FSC is a specific statistic for the Temple Hill FSC location. Let me know if there is anything else I should change. Thank you very much for your help! Yoscotty (talk) 19:10, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comments:

All quotes in the lede either need a citation or should be reworded so the quotes are removed.

Source review:

Sources checked and verified: 1, 45, 47, 49, 58, 61
"The renovation included putting the front doors back in use, updating upholstery, installing new carpeting, updating the electrical system, new paneling, and restoring an outdoor reflecting pool." This sentence is too similar to the source and should be reworded.
"Designed by architect Harold W. Burton in 1962, the temple features a combination of Art Deco, Asian, and mid-century elements" This is too similar to the source wording and should be reworded.
"Artwork includes paintings, murals, and relief artworks. The lobby has a relief artwork representing Adam and Eve and another with Christ in the garden at Gethsemane." Also too similar.
"Fox News has referred to the temple as a "beacon on the hill" because the temple is visible to much of the Bay Area." The source says that Fox News is reporting this name, not that Fox News calls it this. This will need to be reworded.
" It has also been referred to as a "beacon."" I think this can be removed.

Image review:

Licences are good
Change px to upright per MOS:UPRIGHT
Suggest using alt text per MOS:ALT
I moved images to be in their sections

Those are my comments. Z1720 (talk) 14:37, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you again for your notes! The page has been updated according to your specifications. Please, let me know what else I can change! Yoscotty (talk) 17:57, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prose comments:

"announced by church president David O. McKay in 1961 and dedicated in 1964" Delete this, as this information is already in the second paragraph.
Merge the third and fourth paragraphs of the lede.
The last paragraph of the "Interior" section falls into the "X says Y" sentence pattern. Read WP:RECEPTION for tips on how to varying the sentence in this section. The paragraph should also deemphasise quotes and instead summarise the information.
"others include the Easter Pageant in Mesa, Arizona, and the Mormon Miracle Pageant in Manti, Utah." This is off topic and should be removed.

Thank you very much for your notes. I've worked through the edits as you've highlighted them. Please, take a look and let me know if anything else needs to be adjusted.Yoscotty (talk) 9:33, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

All of my concerns have been addressed, and I can determine that it meets the Good Article criteria. Great work! Z1720 (talk) 21:10, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.