Talk:Nox Arcana

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Joseph Vargo

Wouldn't it be bettter that we put the Joseph Vargo stuff in a seperate article? Most of the things mentioned in his section are not really related to Nox Arcana. --ZombieCow (talk) 09:09, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The only thing in this article that has any substance at all is the Billboard ranking for that one album, that's it. All their albums are self-released, the articles on those albums are filled with meaningless blather (none of which derives from independent sources), and the article itself relies on association and weasel words. For instance, Piotrowski worked on a documentary about a woman who was the inspiration for Ghost Whisperer--first of all, so what? second, he worked on it? he directed it or he made coffee for the crew? third, where is the source that proves that he did so? Notability by association is the name of the game here. But you hit the nail on the head: Vargo might be able to have some kind of notability, which is entirely independent from the band's. I'm going to go ahead and make a redirect for him, and perhaps we can get to work. Drmies (talk) 14:53, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

An article on Vargo has been deleted maybe a half a dozen times; that does not bode well--it usually means there's an article full of unverified hearsay. Again, there is more the appearance of notability here than the reality of it. I'll make a redirect for the other star also. Drmies (talk) 14:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Musical characteristics

Well, Drmies. As you requested I have found citations for descriptions of the music and sound effects. Unfortunately, the person who actually wrote that section was an unsigned user, and an editor who started writing it has been inactive since 2007, so I just did this myself. Most of the descriptions are actually on the band site or on the cd itself, but there's a ton of reviews linked right from the band's website that also mention them. Amazon is also filled with very lengthy descriptions of every song, but I thought that a bit much. I tried to choose a review of each album from a different reviewer each time so as not to double up on any single item. Let me know if that works for you. Ebonyskye (talk) 19:47, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I also found 2 more refs for the video "Ghosts of Ohio" but this was already referenced in the interview section and in the band's website bio, which also links to a list of all of its production credits. Ebonyskye (talk) 20:41, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good! That's the way to go. The only problem for anyone who wants to verify is that there are no inline citations: for that one, dense paragraph you have what, a dozen references? Do them individually, and if you really want this to look encyclopedically, use citation templates so the notes will look a lot cleaner. I'll show you what I mean. Keep it up! (BTW, I am not averse to helping or even doing work on some article or other--I just hate being falsely accused of bias and such things.) Drmies (talk) 20:49, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the first five references you cited in that long note, which really should be split up. Of those first five, the only one that really looks a bit like a reliable source is Flames Rising--the rest are blogs, with user-submitted material, or newsletters and such that don't look very impressive. So I used that Valentinelli review to beef up one fact from that paragraph. I suggest using not Google but Google News: you're more likely to find decent references. Drmies (talk) 21:00, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What about Fangoria... that is a big national horror magazine in the US and overseas. Also morbid outlook and sideline are well known online music publications, National Gamers Guild is also popular as is Gaming Report; both report on major publishers and have been used by other bands for refs. I don't think you should discount these at all, especially if you are not familiar with American press (Sideline is actually in the UK or Europe somewhere). Ebonyskye (talk) 21:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, we are debating the description of music... it does not require a major newspaper like Wallstreet Journal, etc. A user submitted review such as an Amazon review or blog on a well known magazine site is a good source for description. We aren't trying to prove Quantum Physics here, just a General Consensus as to the style of music. Generally speaking it's dark, moody, creepy, evokes a feeling of dread.... what's the big problem? And it looks messy to cite every single solitary word or breaking in the middle of sentences, when we are going for a general overall style description. Ebonyskye (talk) 21:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind. I was complaining over nothing. You did an excellent job. Ebonyskye (talk) 21:23, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Ebony, Amazon etc. are NOT reliable sources, and they are not to be used to verify anything (other than perhaps a release date). Have a look at WP:MUSIC. Drmies (talk) 01:31, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fangoria is a national US publication since the early 1970s and is a very reliable source. Amazon has been used for gathering consensus, and other sites like FlamesRising and GamingReport are reliable having been around 10 years or so doing tons of reviews and interviews. Ebonyskye (talk) 03:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ISOhunt

A rep for the band is currentl ebroiled ina bit of controversy over at ISOhunt.com, after attempting (and succeeding) in getting the band's trademarked material removed. 60.240.41.159 (talk) 20:04, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Genre

This ethereal nonsense has to stop. Side-Line and the other ref clearly use "ethereal" as a descriptive adjective (cf. "dream-like", "atmospheric" etc.). It has nothing to do with Ethereal wave as a musical genre, which is an offshoot of Gothic ROCK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.134.8.212 (talk) 00:44, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ethereal wave is described as "gothic", "romantic" and "otherworldly". These same words are used often in reviews to describe the diverse 20 albums from this artist. I honestly, wish the music industry would break apart the word "rock" from the word "gothic". But considering the subject matter and mood of this music, plus the rock influence (stated in several interviews), "gothic" is truly the best genre to put it in, if there is no other choice. Check listings on Amazon and other retail sites. They all list the albums in their gothic rock genre. Ebonyskye (talk) 04:13, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Ethereal wave is described as "gothic", "romantic" and "otherworldly"."

Yes. And these words are probably used to describe 50 other genres, from the music of Enya to the Gothic metal sound of Paradise Lost. It doesn't matter. The only thing that counts is the stylistic characteristics. Ethereal Wave is a guitar genre, based on voice, e-guitar, bass guitar, drums or drum machine... Gothic rock -> exactly the same. The genre name is not important. The only important thing is the music.

"Check listings on Amazon and other retail sites. They all list the albums in their gothic rock genre."

And why? Because of the lack of suitable genre tags. They think "OK, somehow it's connected to the Gothic/Darkwave scene. Just put it under the Gothic rock style". They don't care about categorizations. They are not an encyclopedia. They are selling products. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.134.9.192 (talk) 07:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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