Talk:Not Strong Enough

Not Strong Enough (final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 24 July 2024 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Not Strong Enough article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Not Strong Enough has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: April 22, 2024. (Reviewed version).

Songs

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles

Women in Music Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Alternative music Low‑importance

	Rock music portal This article is part of WikiProject Alternative music, a group of Wikipedians interested in improving the encyclopedic coverage of articles relating to alternative rock. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page.Alternative musicWikipedia:WikiProject Alternative musicTemplate:WikiProject Alternative musicAlternative music articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

LGBTQ+ studies

This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies articles

Section sizes

Section size for Not Strong Enough (17 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	3,050	3,050
Background and release	10,689	10,689
Writing and composition	28	30,002
Music	21,319	21,319
Lyrics	8,655	8,655
Response	13	30,639
Commercial performance	10,109	10,109
Critical reception	20,517	20,517
Music video	6,941	6,941
Live performances	9,369	9,369
Accolades	5,019	5,019
Credits and personnel	934	934
Charts	36	1,099
Weekly charts	681	681
Year-end charts	382	382
Notes	24	24
References	506	506
Total	98,272	98,272

Text and/or other creative content from Draft:Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song) was copied or moved into Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

A fact from Not Strong Enough appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 19 May 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that "Not Strong Enough" by Boygenius describes conflicting mental states of self-hatred and self-importance?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song).

Wikipedia

On 19 July 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song) to Not Strong Enough. The result of the discussion was moved.

GA Review

Passed. The Blue Rider

18:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Dylan620 (talk · contribs) 01:48, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: The Blue Rider (talk · contribs) 13:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Some tone related suggestions since there are no sources backing up such phrasing:

major success → success
enjoyed widespread acclaim → enjoyed critical acclaim

@The Blue Rider: Good suggestions; I've addressed this by switching the commerical tidbit to "enjoyed success" and the critical one to "was acclaimed". Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 16:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Background

"had all released" sounds akward to me, maybe "each had released their respective albums"? (optional)
- Done, with some additional tweaks to the prose. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Add wikilink to the three singers. (optional)
- Done. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is worthy to clarify that The Record is an album: "...the album The Record and its..."
- Done. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Writing and composition

Add wikilink to vocal harmonies. (optional)
- Done. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Add wikilink to synthesizers. (optional)
- Done, and I've added links to other instruments as well. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Add wikilink to bridge (music). (optional)
- Done, with added links to verse and chorus. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Response

Commercial performance

Is Billboard's charts the only commercial performance that can be said about the song?
- Aside from the United States, it only charted in Ireland and on the Japan Hot Overseas chart. There isn't a direct link for each artist's performance on the JHO chart, so the only sources for that chart are the archives of each week's listing. I did find that the song spent nine non-consecutive weeks on that chart spread out over the course of nearly a year, plus it spent two non-consecutive weeks on the Ireland singles chart. I'm off to bed shortly, but I should be able to add more information tomorrow. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Noting that I've followed through on this. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 22:26, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Critical reception

Who is writing for Consequence?
- Spencer Dukoff, who is named later in the sentence after a couple commas. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have difficulties seeing this as encyclopedical: "In July 2023, Barack Obama included "Not Strong Enough" on his annual Summer Playlist, to which Dacus tweeted, "war criminal :("."
- I've removed this for now, although I should note that entering "barack obama summer playlist" into Wikipedia's search engine turned up multiple results for other songs'/artists' inclusions. The way this tidbit had been present in the article was a bit jarring, though, looking at it again. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Music video

Add wikilink to tarot cards (optional).
Specify that i-D is a magazine.
- I've taken care of both of these bullets. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 20:04, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Live performances

Specify that is Taylor Swift, for moments I thought you were talking about SWIFT.
- Specified. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 20:04, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accolades

Everything seems good.

Stability

Last edited 2 days ago (1 April), no edit wars are in place, pass! The Blue Rider 18:13, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Images

Three images: two of them with the correct copyright status and suitable captions, but I am not sure about fair rationale's of the music video screenshot, we already have other pictures that identify the articles' subject.
- Hmmmm. We do have other pictures to identify the band, but as the music video is about the band having fun together, I wanted to use a screencap of them engaging in one of the activities chronicled in the video. Do you have any suggestions? Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 00:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

The numbers of the sources are from this revision. Checked source 2, 5, 8, 14, 47, 50, 61, 62 and 70.

Source 61 nor 62 doesn't say anything about a Santa Monica Pier.

@The Blue Rider: Source 62 does mention the Santa Monica Pier, though :/ "Phoebe wanted the monster trucks bad," Lucy recalled. "I wanted to go to the Santa Monica Pier pretty bad because I just had never been." I will concede that source 61 doesn't mention the SMP by name, but it does mention "hit[ting] up amusement parks", which implicitly refers to the SMP. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 16:45, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh my bad, I did control F to find for any mention but weirdly it didn't appear. All good, will be passing the article. The Blue Rider 18:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 01:26, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

Boygenius performing live in 2023

... that "Not Strong Enough" by Boygenius (pictured) describes conflicting mental states of self-hatred and self-importance? Source: https://thefortyfive.com/news/boygenius-meaning-of-not-strong-enough/ ("Phoebe [Bridgers] has expressed it as self-hatred plus having a God complex – like, sometimes, you feel like you’re the best thing ever – and both of these states can be happening at the same time."), https://americansongwriter.com/the-meaning-behind-boygenius-grammy-nominated-not-strong-enough/ ("'Self-hatred is a god complex sometimes,' Bridgers further explained in the Genius interview")
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Halfpenny (New Zealand coin)
- Comment: A QPQ is in fact required of me; the tool does not account for three nominations I did in 2009, making this my sixth overall.

Improved to Good Article status by Dylan620 (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 22:55, 24 April 2024 (UTC). Interesting song GA on many and substantial sources, no copyvio obvious. I wonder if "expresses" would be a better word than "describes". The licensed image is beautiful when large, but not captivating in stamp size. In case it is not taken, I believe that the word "song" should be added to the hook for clarity that it has to do with music. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 19 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

– The pageviews show that the Boygenius song has not been exceeded in views by the Apocalyptica song. Additionally, the Apocalyptica song is of unclear notability, as shown on its page, whereas the Boygenius song seems to be more notable. Seeing as there are only two topics, a disambiguation page might not even be needed, a hatnote could suffice. As a fan of the Boygenius song, I might be biased, but I still believe it is the primary topic. Courtesy pings to @Ss112, Dylan620, Johnny421, and HMDude3: as involved/top editors in these articles. – The Sharpest Lives (💬•✏️•ℹ️) (ping me!) 15:40, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Similarly to the nominator, I may also be biased in favor of the Boygenius song, which has steadily become an all-time favorite since its release (though I hope it doesn't show in the article!). Nevertheless, it has long been my opinion that the Boygenius song is the primary topic – it topped a Billboard airplay chart for several weeks, attracted widespread critical acclaim, and won two Grammy Awards. The only reason why I haven't proposed this myself yet is because I have been putting off submitting this article to FAC while working on other projects and was going to post an RM after any FAC had concluded. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 15:49, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops! I hope I'm not interrupting anything. Let me know if I need to withdraw and save the RM for later. – The Sharpest Lives (💬•✏️•ℹ️) (ping me!) 22:27, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No you're good! There are still some more tweaks/additions I want to make before nominating anyway, plus I have several other current or prospective projects in the works. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 23:30, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support moving Not Strong Enough (Boygenius song) → Not Strong Enough, paired with Not Strong Enough → deleted to make room for move, per WP:ONEOTHER. A hatnote atop the entry for the Boygenius song — For the Finnish rock band single, see Not Strong Enough (Apocalyptica song) — would suffice. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:34, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Even if you exclude the outliers in OP's page views, the Boygenius draws far more views than the other song. See [1]. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 02:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.