Talk:North Sulawesi babirusa

Tusks

How in the heck do these pigs not die of infection every time their tusks break through their freaking skulls and up into the air???

The same as body piercing.Aditthegrat 05:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Why does it matter whether jewish religious doctrine allows the consumption of an endangered species? Were there plans to start up Babirusa farms producing kosher pork? Were jews contributing to the species' decline through consumption? Do all wikipedia entries for endangered species include a discussion of whether it's OK for jews to eat them? This just strikes me as bizarre. 08:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Calm down. The matter is a) historical b) of interest because it shows just how bizarre and unusual this pig is c) has nothing to do with its conservation status - the species was far more plentiful 100 years ago when they were still believed to be ruminants; it is threatened (NOT "endangered" as per the usual definition) mainly by deforestation not by hunting.

In fact, I had heard of the halakha dispute and of course knew of the babirusa, but did not count two and two together - I am not a mammalogist. This article, though the information may border on the trivial, finally answered the question what this nearly-kosher pig species was! Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 12:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

The babirusa was believed to be a ruminant until 1980 or so. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 12:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

This is funny: when babirusa tusks grow very long, they recurve and pierce their own brain, and kill them. The difficult part is that females like babirusas with longer tusks! So to break the tusk or keep it? Every male babirusa has to ponder this question. (OK, I'm kidding 'bout the question part, nut the brain poking is real, I saw it on The Most Extreme). Dora Nichov 03:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Bit dubious, though the claim is around, I heard it too. The tusks probably don't grow indefinitely, though they may come full (half-)circle. They go through the jaw initially in a preformed spot where the bone is weaker, and it is doubtful whether they could pierce the braincase. Maybe it happens sometimes, but it's probably just natural selection keeping the balance between the females' desires and the males' livelihood. Just like some peacocks having longer trails than others, but almost never trails too long to deal with them. The need to impress the ladies AND stay alive will inevitably cause a balance to evolve - one pushes up, the other presses down. (it's actually pretty simple - the longer the tusks are, the more children a babyrusa male has on average. Up to the point where the tusks become a liability, causing such males - on average - to live less long, fathering - on average - less children.)

What I find more interesting - doesnt' the initial emergence of the upper tusks hurt the pigs like hell? After all, they do grow right through the jaw bone, soft spot or not. It certainly hurts humans - are babirusas just more stolid?

Physiologically, this seems like a field for research - how do the weak spots form? Does the pressure exerted by the growing tusks cause osteoclasts to break down the bone (and does something similar happen to the soft tissue later on)? How do they eat during this time? Are they totally on endorphins, or are the nerves sort of cauterized, or what? Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 12:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

OK I found a good source (though not on what I hoped to find) - the tusks do seem to grow indefinitely in captivity, but they would probably not pierce the braincase as the animal is likely to die of an infection when they grow into the skull. Zookeepers need to trim the tusks by filing off their tips every once in a while. In the wild, the males either would file off the tips themselves on rocks or so, or it might be that the tusk growth limits the males' lifespan. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 12:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

The Italian article, though I understand too little of it, seems to suggest that a single case in known in which the upper canines did in fact start to enter the braincase. But as it is, they will eventually try to grow in a full circle, injuring the skin but not actually entering the skull. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 13:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

The antidote?

"Its diet consists of sometimes toxic shoots and leaves, which it counteracts by drinking from particular forest pools which contain the antidote..." - how does this "antidote" work? Does the water, for example, contain high levels of acidic compounds that neutralize base agents? bd2412 T 01:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

This seems like make believe to me as well, I'm removing it for now. If you would like to add it again please add references.

Anthracotheriidae,

are there news? babirusa are Anthracotheriidae? Anselmocisneros 14:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Do we have any references for this?--Mr Fink 15:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

There are no references; most anthracotheriidas are not too distant to hippos. Some would go somewhere else however, and it may be that this has been misunderstood (e.g. if some supposed anthracotheriid has turned up to be some primitive pig, it might indeed be not too distant from the babirusa). Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 13:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, it's an obsolete theory from 1909 that pops up every now and then. Last in 1981. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 13:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Babi (h)utan

Anyone know whether this animal is also known as babi hutan (forest pig) in Sulawesi? I was offered the meat of a creature by that name some years ago.

I believe babi hutan is actually the normal wild boar. See id:Babi hutan. That is not to say that babirusa is never eaten, because it certainly is. --Olav L 22:09, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Translation?

it:Babyrousa babyrussa and de:Hirscheber are quite high-quality and the present article would well benefit from translating them. (Note that the German article seems to imply that the teeth are intentionally used in combat. This is not the case. Though there are wild males with broken tusks, these appears to be accidents - makes fight by standing up on their hind legs, leaning onto each other front to front, raising their head so that the precious tusks are out of the way, and then blindly paddling at the opponent with the forelegs until one has enough and leaves. Tusks may break (especially the upper ones which are unable to withstand any significant force), but the males seem to try their best to avoid this happening to them. Not always successfully, but they try. The fights between males rarely seem to lead to more than minor bruises and scratches. Females on the other hand use their chisel-like incisors if they are angry and can deliver nasty wounds by stabbing at the opponent's legs and feet. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 13:18, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

expert needed

This page is a mess. Either you go with the split into several species or you don't. You can't do both as this article seemingly tries. If not following the split, this page should be moved to just "Babirusa". "Buru" is only added if following the split into several species. If staying with the current name (i.e. Buru Babirusa), which means that you'd be following the split, the majority of the info presented in this article should be moved to an article for the Sulawesi Babirusa (which confusingly redirects to Buru Babirusa right now, thereby making the confusion complete!). First, all the photos and the video used in this article involve the Sulawesi Babirusa. Most of the info also involve the Sulawesi Babirusa, e.g. range is given as Sulawesi (the Buru is, as suggested by its name, restricted to the island of Buru), the description as "mostly-hairless, mottled-grey-and-brown hide" (the Buru is rather hairy, as also suggested by its alternative name, Golden Babirusa), the info on it being threatened by illegal hunting but protected by Indonesian law (as well as its associated ref) refers to the Sulawesi, and all the info given on captives is also about the Sulawesi (there are only Sulawesi in captivity - there might be a Buru in some random zoo in Indonesia, but that's it). Just about all the external links are also about the Sulawesi. So, major clean-up needed. 212.10.89.113 (talk) 17:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

More on a possible solution of above here. 212.10.89.113 (talk) 17:21, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Dealt with. Still the problem of commons confusingly using "old" taxonomy. • Rabo³ • 17:46, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Nicely done, Rabo! A note to IP user 212.10.89.113, use MSW3 for taxonomy and IUCN for conservation status (IUCN does not focus on the specifics of taxonomy, whereas MSW3's sole focus is taxonomy), that was my main beef to the initial page move(s). Rgrds. --Tombstone (talk) 15:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Breeding in the wild

There's mention of problems of inbreeding among captive animals, but there's no information about the animal in the wild. Also, there's no information about the average size of litters. According to the My Zoo game on Facebook, the average litter size is 2, but I don't know of a better reference source for that information. Jtyroler (talk) 07:09, 4 December 2012 (UTC)