Talk:Sarasota metropolitan area

Florida Mid‑importance

	Florida portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Florida. If you would like to join us, please visit the project page; if you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.FloridaWikipedia:WikiProject FloridaTemplate:WikiProject FloridaFlorida articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Cities

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CitiesWikipedia:WikiProject CitiesTemplate:WikiProject CitiesWikiProject Cities articles

On 21 August 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Sarasota-North Port combined statistical area. The result of the discussion was not moved.

CFD for category related to this article

FYI: There is an ongoing discussion at WP:CFD regarding the names of categories for certain US metropolitan areas, including this one. See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013 March 4#Metropolitan areas in the United States. --Orlady (talk) 17:07, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lafayette-Opelousas-Morgan City, LA Combined Statistical Area which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:47, 12 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Name change

Otherwise responsible editors renamed this to Sarasota Metro Area. The government has the names in sequence for a reason. The reason is that North Port (which I honestly never heard of) is larger than Sarasota, which, in turn, is larger than Bradenton. I sympathize with the previous change, but reality is reality. We need to use official names unless a consensus is reached for some other reason.

Note that on the other coast, Melbourne-Cocoa-Titusville MSA was renamed to Palm Bay-Melbourne-Titusville MSA because Palm Bay had become the largest in the area, and Cocoa was simply dropped! Student7 (talk) 15:42, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The government's naming reasons need not be ours, and it is inappropriate of you to suggest that editors who think a different name is more appropriate are irresponsible. I'm in favor of Sarasota metropolitan area; I think others are as well. And if we go with your title, there's still no reason to capitalize "Metropolitan Area". Dicklyon (talk) 15:51, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Per WP:COMMONNAME: "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources" Gamaliel (talk) 16:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Seems WP:SPAMmy. Why else change the correct name? Because a C-of-C objects? pov.

More than that, this article has been more or less correctly named since Horologium did so in May of 2011. No real cause (WP:BURDEN) has been advanced for altering it. Student7 (talk) 20:48, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

While indeed North Port is the largest city in the metro area, there's no real dispute that Sarasota is far more of an economic/political/etc. center than North Port is. I think the Herald-Tribune editorial explains it well. The City of Sarasota is a relatively small chunk of what comprises "Sarasota"—unincorporated census-designated places like "Bee Ridge", "Fruitville", "Ridge Wood Heights, Florida" are more or less creations of census fiction and carry Sarasota addresses and are locally considered to be part of Sarasota even though they are not in fact legally part of the city proper. Unincorporated Sarasota outpopulates the City of Sarasota and it's been this way for a long time. North Port's advantageous municipal boundaries are the sole reason for its larger population size. If the City of Sarasota's boundaries were even 25% bigger (a political impossibility) the city proper would probably leave North Port in the dust population-wise. Crg34275 (talk) 17:55, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Census fiction? Oh jeez. It's basing population on available square footage. The census designated places follow subdivisions and tracts already present - for instance, check the population growth for those CDPs from 80s and 90s - it shows a clearer picture that people moved east in the 80s because Interstate 75 was constructed. People get in such a fit about the name changing when it's a standard guideline for metropolitan areas in the Census. There's no arguing the economic growth center places because that's not what the Census is establishing - it's just providing a basic framework so the associated authorities can track population, economic, and financial growth. I see a lot to be changed with the 2020 Census - we'll probably see the start of Lakewood Ranch and West Villages as CDPs. – The Grid (talk) 15:45, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 August 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. per discussion consensus. Further name iterations should probably get overall discussion before opening a new RM about them, as pre-gathering consensus will help predict a successful RM. It's better to narrow your choices, but it's clear this probably isn't the one.— Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 22:50, 29 August 2021 (UTC) (closed by non-admin page mover) — Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 22:50, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sarasota metropolitan area → Sarasota-North Port combined statistical area — North Port is a significant part of this area. The Office of Management and Budget named this area “North Port-Sarasota, FL Combined Statistical Area.” RealIK17 (talk) 16:36, 21 August 2021 (UTC) RealIK17 (talk) 16:36, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The OMB makes these kind of name changes rather frequently. I have seen the name of a major metro area in Florida changed, then changed to something else a few months later, then changed to the earlier form about a year after that. The form "Major city metropolitan area" is commonly used in Wikipedia, with the OMB name appearing in the infobox. See Miami metropolitan area, for example. - Donald Albury 19:35, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, please read the section above titled "Name change". When I started this article 15 years ago I named it "Sarasota-Bradenton-Venice, Florida Metropolitan Statistical Area", using the OMB name. Two-and-a-half years later it was moved to "Sarasota-Bradenton-Punta Gorda, FL Combined Statistical Area", and nine minutes later, to "Sarasota-Bradenton-Punta Gorda, Florida Metropolitan Statistical Area". The next month it was moved to "Bradenton-Sarasota-Venice, Florida Metropolitan Statistical Area". In May 2011, the article was moved to "North Port–Bradenton–Sarasota, Florida Metropolitan Statistical Area". In March 2013 it was moved to "North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton, Florida Metropolitan Statistical Area", and in August 2013 simplified to "North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton metropolitan area", and later the same day, to "Sarasota metropolitan area". Four days later the article was moved back to "North Port-Sarasota-Bradenton, Florida Metropolitan Statistical Area", and half-an-hour later returned to "Sarasota metropolitan area". The page title has been stable since then. Note that the OMB changed the name of the MSA four times between 2006 and 2013. I think that is a good reason to avoid the OMB names in WP article titles, and use names that reflect common usage (WP:COMMONNAME). - Donald Albury 20:32, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - I understand the argument of the nominator but it really comes from the history of the CSA. It seems the OMB has prevented drastic changes in the CSA based here. It looks like the delineations happened in February 2013, July 2015, August 2017, April 2018, September 2018, and March 2020. I think they also established a new law recently so that the next review of CSA naming is not until 2023 in which it probably will be renamed to "North Port-Bradenton-Sarasota combined statistical area" as Bradenton recently surpassed Sarasota in population. Donald Albury, for your argument are you suggesting a rename to North Port metropolitan area? In the past decade, the North Port region has had non-stop growth from Wellen Park (or West Villages) while Sarasota is reaching buildout in its city limits. Even with the readjustment growth rate from the 2020 Census, it grew 30% compared to 2010! I also am not sure about WP:COMMONNAME here - it's all marketing. Whichever principal city having the bigger budget, is going to have more results from Google. The name has been ok in the past but Sarasota is now the third principal city on the CSA. – The Grid (talk) 01:10, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think the name of the Article should stay in the form Central city metropolitan area, as do most of the articles about metro areas in Florida. I prefer Sarasota metropolitan area to North Port metropolitan area because Sarasota fits the role of "central city" better than North Port does. I think either North Port-Sarasota metropolitan area or Sarasota-North Port metropolitan area would be better than North Port metropolitan area, although not my first preference. - Donald Albury 18:43, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any examples of a central city being used? I know I have tried to find similar article naming in the past but it seems it depends on a case by case basis. I do agree with it being central to the area - Bradenton is north and North Port is somewhat southeast. – The Grid (talk) 16:46, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In Florida, there are Gainesville metropolitan area, Florida, Jacksonville metropolitan area, Florida, Miami metropolitan area, Pensacola metropolitan area, and Tallahassee metropolitan area. The Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford MSA is at Greater Orlando (although the first name in the text is "Orlando metropolitan area"). The Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater MSA is at Tampa Bay area. Deltona-Daytona Beach-Ormond Beach, Florida Metropolitan Statistical Area and Crestview-Fort Walton Beach-Destin metropolitan area use all three central city names. Single county MSAs in Florida have been redirected to their respective county articles. So, for Florida, there are six articles (counting this one) with a single central city in the article name, and four articles with various other forms, including two using the names of all three central cities named by the OMB. I will note that for four of the articles in Florida using a single central city name, that city is the only one named by the OMB for the MSA. On consideration, I can live with calling the article North Port-Bradenton-Sarasota metropolitan area. - Donald Albury 01:51, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I now see that the North Port-Sarasota Combined Statistical Area, suggested as the name for this article by RealIK17, is defined by the OMB to include the Punta Gorda Metropolitan Statistical Area (Charlotte County) and the Arcadia, FL Micropolitan Statistical Area (DeSoto County) as well as the North Port-Bradenton-Sarasota MSA. - Donald Albury 20:54, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.