Talk:North Carolina–South Carolina football rivalry

Carolina Keeps Calling Me Home

Didn't realize this was a rivalry! Surprised to see so much Carolina Blue in the win box! Cool! Honestly I always considered N Carolina-Clemson more of a rivalry. They are both ACC sports powerhouses with a lot of state pride. But it's interesting to see the history between the Cocks and Heels. I know Spurrier hates North Carolina from his days at Duke. And I know Dabo's comments about USC in SoCal and Carolina in Chapel Hill fuel some hate from SCAR for UNC. Maybe this data should be added. Anyways, this could be a great rivalry! I wouldn't just say football though. I know SCAR is pretty bad a basketball but both schools are good a baseball. CarolinaBlue Army (talk) 17:09, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Okay I added new sections. Starting to get the hang of this. A good way to pass time and keep ones mind occupied. In my mind, I'm going to Carolina. RLTW!!CarolinaBlue Army (talk) 19:27, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Dabo Swinney's personal opinions have no relevance to this rivalry, and are not notable for inclusion in this article. The same applies to the legal dispute between the University of South Carolina and the University of Southern California. GarnetAndBlack (talk) 10:13, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

It may not seem like it to you, but I spent a lot of time adding those sections on this page. You completely erased everything I was working on without talking to me. That's disrespectful. I would at least expect a heads up or to know what your thinking before you completely wipe everything I'm working on off of Wikipedia. I may not be the best researcher but I do have a college degree and happen to know a lot about North Carolina. I believe I have insight that can help the public. This is a brand new article that had minimal information. I would appreciate you working with me, or at least steering me in the right direction before you literally delete everything I'm working on. Again, extremely disrespectful.CarolinaBlue 15:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by CarolinaBlue Army (talk • contribs) CarolinaBlue (talk) 15:35, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

The time it takes you to type information into a Wikipedia article has no bearing on whether or not that information is relevant and notable to the article. These are the criteria for inclusion of material. The ignorant, personal opinions of a Clemson coach have zero bearing on this rivalry, nor does a legal battle between the two USCs on the East and West Coasts. Again, this has nothing to do with "respect" for your time spent adding information here, and everything to do with Wikipedia policy on how articles are constructed and what material should and should not be included in them. I suggest you spend some time reading some of the various policies that are linked in the "Welcome!" message posted to your Talk page. Don't take it personally if your work is changed or removed entirely, if you are not adhering to policy, this will continue to happen. GarnetAndBlack (talk) 07:51, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

First of all, Garnet and Black, with the job I have, if I make a mistake, men die. I think you can cut me some slack on whatever policies you are saying I broke. Secondly, you clearly didn't read the talk section before rudely preaching to me like you are some wikipedia omniscient God. I have literally discussed everything in TALK and have even used the word "consensus." Thirdly, using the term "ignorant opinions" is subjective to you (not saying they are ignorant or are not). You are blatantly using POV as your push in removing the information. NCjon has voiced objective concerns, you are using your anger for Clemson to drive your actions here, which ironically, is the EXACT attitude I was portraying by including the information. So thank you. And lastly, respect is important Garnet and Black. As Carolina Boys you and I know that. It shouldn't change just because you are behind a computer screen. Respectfully, CarolinaBlue (talk) 08:16, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Your chosen profession also has no bearing on whether or not you follow Wikipedia editing policies. If you are truly interested in being an editor here, you have to learn and follow these polices, it's really that simple, and no "slack" is given people no matter what their job is IRL. I'm going to advise you for a third time to read the policies I've referred to, and then you will see that no one here is being "rude" or "disrespectful", but this project has rules, and those must be adhered to, or the project will quickly spin out of control with the sheer number of people who participate here. Your tone continues to imply that you don't feel you need to take these policies seriously for your own personal reasons. I can assure you that this is not the case. GarnetAndBlack (talk) 08:55, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Garnett and Black, if you want to work with me, I'm going to start researching notable games if you want to help. I know SCAR had that black magic thing going on back in the day. Maybe that will play into the rivalry, I need to check it out. Also, I know the names of the two teams and identity have a large role in the rivalry. North Carolina-South Carolina. And naturally so. Even the names suggest they are two halves of the same coin. When I get the rights to upload images, I'm thinking about putting a couple of different logos on the page and comparing and contrasting them, extrapolating the significance. Maybe put the two logs of the schools side by side that have the mascot on it. Talk about how SCAR is only a C. And show the reader how UNC has "Carolina" written on it. Then show the two logos without mascots. The interlocking NC and SC. I think this may further push how imbedded each school is with upholding the heritage and namesake of the original colony. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CarolinaBlue Army (talk • contribs) 15:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC) CarolinaBlue (talk) 16:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

I just found a newspaper article that talks about the teams and calls them in-state rivals! This could be gold! Maybe I can incorporate that somehow. CarolinaBlue (talk) 16:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

I also believe the rivalry intra ACC needs to be discussed as well as how it changed post gamecocks leaving for SEC. CarolinaBlue (talk) 17:56, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Ironic how North Carolina and the ACC declared SCAR players ineligible because they didn't meet the academic standings, but UNC is going through some struggles now with players and academics.Hmmm CarolinaBlue (talk) 20:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

There's a pretty big difference between a conference moving the goalposts on academic standards in an attempt to try to create admission problems for a school that was getting a bit too good at basketball, and another school that had a decades-long academic fraud scheme taking place that primarily benefited athletes[1]. I don't really see the comparison, or the irony. GarnetAndBlack (talk) 08:09, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

That is the exact irony I was talking about Garnet and Black. Thankyou for explaining it. SCAR got shafted.CarolinaBlue (talk) 08:26, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

These are the images i'm looking for and i've seen them before but can't seem to find them now. There is a picture of the UNC SCAR scoreboard in chapel hill that has Carolina in carolina blue written across the top and the scores say Carolina vs. USC. The other is a flyer for football in columbia that says Carolina vs. North Carolina.CarolinaBlue (talk) 07:41, 20 August 2015 (UTC) Also, when i'm autoconfirmed i need to figure out how to upload images of the UNC logo with the Ram in the middle that say CAROLINA TAR HEELS on he C, and a pic of SCAR football jersey showing CAROLINA on chest CarolinaBlue (talk) 07:43, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Rivalry worthy of an entry?

@CarolinaBlue Army: has done a lot of work here and I'm interested in giving him a chance to flesh it out a little more. But I fundamentally question whether this is a rivalry worthy of a separate entry. Since South Carolina left the ACC in 1971, they have only played 12 times and only 2 times in the last 24 years. To me it's just not there. If it is worthy of an entry, the stuff from Dabo Swinney and Steve Spurrier's Duke days should be left out. The focus should be on activities between the two schools, including on the field. Ncjon (talk) 17:39, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

NCjon, thanks for the input. At first, I too questioned the rivalry, seeing as SCAR left the ACC. I do however feel that there are tensions between the two schools when it comes to namesake. This expands past the realm of football. You can't have the two teams meet in any sport and not ignite the "Real Carolina" debate. Google image said term and see what I mean. And i really do believe Steve Spurrier and Dabo Swinney's remarks further ignite sparks between the two schools. I would propose that the article be expanded and be renamed the North Carolina-South Carolina Rivalry. And honestly, the rarity and even unpredictable match ups between the two make it all more important to win and prove who owns "Carolina". When the teams meet, there is a lot of hostility. Anyone who watched the UNC-SCAR baseball game during the world series of 2013 will tell you that. Two teams, both with Carolina written across their chests, two sides of the coin. It was epic. But of course this goes beyond football and is institutional in nature. And if this article is expanded, Dabo's comments and Spurrier's past definitely have a place in here. Plenty of Spurrier's comments back this up. Again, thanks for the input. I did not create this article but am merely trying to do some good solid editing and writing to expand the stub I stumbled upon. I humbly and politely ask that the current information not be wiped clean just yet. Lets allow some time and writing to develop. Lets get some more editors to reach a consensus on what should be added, deleted, or modified. Thanks again on taking the time to give your input. AIRBORNE! RLTW! CarolinaBlue (talk) 19:36, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Again, Dabo Swinney's comments are utterly irrelevant to this rivalry (if it can truly be called one) as a whole, and your insistence on including this material (as well as the court battle over the SC trademark) is starting to become suspicious. You wouldn't be the first Clemson fan to pose as a fan of another team in order to attempt to skew the POV of an article that involves USC (not SCAR, because that's not an abbreviation for the University of South Carolina used by anyone other than ESPN, and your constant use of the abbreviation is also something commonly seen online by Clemson fans who think it somehow diminishes USC). Stick to relevant and notable material, and your editing in this article will go smoothly. I notice that some of the sources you've used thus far (blogs) are likely far from acceptable, and material that is not sourced may be removed. The same applies to images that you have discussed adding. If they are not public domain, then they will also likely be removed. I would again encourage you to read the various policies on editing that are linked in the "Welcome!" message left on your Talk page. GarnetAndBlack (talk) 08:04, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Garnet and Black, it is becoming apparent to me that you are a keyboard warrior. Someone who uses the safety of a computer to spew hate IOT push a certain agenda. There is a lot of hate for myself and my profession. I don't need you attacking my integrity. Also, I bleed CAROLINA BLUE. I have alot of love for the school, team, and hospital. Without going into detail they have done more for me than i could think to repay them. But I do not let that drive me to push POV like you and even tell you that your secretly a Duke student who hates UNC. Its ignorant, because its an ad hominem, meaning you lack the reason to attack me, so you use perceived personal attacks. More so, it shouldn't matter what collegiate affiliation an editor has. This is not a sports blog. Lastly, instead of insulting my citing skills, you could assist me or point me in the right direction in fixing the problem.CarolinaBlue (talk) 08:38, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Telling me the images I am going to upload will likely be removed is a juvenile attack. Don't think you are so high and mighty. The pure reason that you are waiting for me to upload images so that you can remove them is vindictive in nature. I have made plenty of comments and even a request for help in uploading images legally. By you making these comments, you are clearly someone who is out to crush any editor who is not a fellow POV pushing SCAR fan. (I have friends, family, and men who are SC fans so im not saying all SC fans are like you) But I do find your actions here deplorable in how you treat a new editor. I would encourage you to read up on wikipedia policies and identify with them. Let the pillars be your guide. Just because you can cite them and use them to degrade new users doesn't mean you know them.CarolinaBlue (talk) 08:51, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I've tried to help you three separate times by pointing you toward valuable information, and all you can seemingly do is rant and rave about how much respect you think you are owed. Sorry, but those who would demand respect must first give respect, and you have shown nothing of the kind in your remarks thus far. I didn't make the point about your images to "attack" you, but merely to attempt to inform you such that you don't waste your valuable time by searching for and uploading images here that will be quickly deleted (not by me, necessarily) for being non-free, copyrighted material. There is a core group of users here that does nothing else but look for that type of image and remove them. If you continue to treat all attempts to give you advice as "degrading", then I am quickly going to be finished trying to talk to you and will resort to simply correcting the mistakes you make. I suggest you take a step back, calm down and approach this project and your fellow users with some of the respect that you seem so fond of talking about. GarnetAndBlack (talk) 09:02, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

@CarolinaBlue Army: I don't question that there is fan interest when the schools meet. What I question is whether this is a rivalry worthy of a Wikipedia entry of its own. The debate over the use of "Carolina" is somewhat interesting - I get it as a fan. I like to give South Carolina fans gruff over it - but it's not enough to warrant an entry. The meetings on the field are so infrequent, even in other sports, that it's hard to call this a rivalry. Out of curiosity, I looked it up in the record books. The last time North Carolina and South Carolina played a regular season baseball game was in 2004, and before that you have to go back to 1988. The last time they played a regular season basketball game was in 2011, and that was at a preseason tournament. They've only played four regular season games since South Carolina left the ACC, all in preseason tournaments, three of them the Pepsi Tournament in the early 90s. Women's basketball has met more regularly - seven regular season games in the last 15 years, all in Myrtle Beach. To be a rivalry of note the teams need to play each other more frequently, in my opinion. And I'd suggest that you don't overlook @GarnetAndBlack:'s suggestions just because he's on the other side of the rivalry or disagrees with you. He's made some good suggestions in this discussion. Ncjon (talk) 13:31, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Ncjon, I completely understand. If I hadn't stumbled upon this page, I would never have thought to look into it. I certainly wouldn't have thought to create the article. Like I said, N Carolina-Clemson is more of a rivalry as they meet every year. That is a true annual border war between the Carolinas. And to address Garnet and Blacks comments, I was accused of being a Clemson fan in disguise as a UNC fan in order to attack SCAR and promote Clemson. That is an attack on Integrity and I take it very seriously. As for using the initials "SCAR" to describe South Carolina, I'm not doing it because Clemson calls SoCal USC and UNC Carolina or or any reason like that. I do it because that is what is published on ESPN every day and SoCal legally owns USC. Its an encyclopedia, I was trying to be clear. If I were to sit here and refer to SC as USC and UNC as Carolina, it would be confusing. A big part of the rivalry is monikers so it wouldn't make sense. As for the mistakes made on Wikipedia, my point is I live a life where mistakes cant be made without serious consequences. What ever rules I've broken on here, unknowingly of course, were mistakes. Point them out and I will work to correct them. I apologize for the circular references. I did my best to correct them. As for reaching a consensus before I add anything. I have talked about everything I have been doing. I don't give two damns that he's a South Carolina Alum. This is an encyclopedia and no place for spin, so it shouldn't matter who went where or who roots for who. I have a family member that is a chair at SC. I have no hate for it. To accuse me of such is childish. Garnet and Black, learn some interpersonal tact. By looking at your history, you have a pattern of misconduct and arguments. As for the Duke and Clemson remarks. There is an INTENSE rivalry between Duke and UNC and Clemson and SCAR. Each teams affiliations with the others rivals would naturally fuel rivalry. But I'm not going to add the information because I know Garnet and Black would delete it from his history of edit warring and 3RR violations. Doing so would only cause drama. I guess I expected to come onto an encyclopedia and be treated as a scholar or equal. Instead, I am called a Clemson fan in Carolina blue clothing. I was thinking about sending this to the dispute resolution board (yes I've read the rules on my welcome page) but then again, its not worth it. If we cant reach a consensus on here then I'm certainly not going to push it. To everyone else I have talked to, I have nothing but thanks to give for helping me out.

Even though this was an intense rivalry before SCAR left the ACC, I concur with Ncjon that this probably shouldn't be an article, or at least it needs to talk about the rivalry it used to be. Without talking about duke or Clemson, I have to reach for material to add. Not to mention I feel like I am beginning to do too much first hand research, which isn't allowed on Wikipedia. What do y'all think about creating a Clemson-North Carolina Rivalry article? CarolinaBlue (talk) 14:22, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea, I do think they are a rivalry.CollegeRivalry (talk) 28 August 2015 (UTC)

After seeing the news and hype about this game, I have decided that it certainly warrants a page. But I do think a N Carolina-Clemson page would be useful as well. The schools have even added more openers in the future. CarolinaBlue (talk) 11:29, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

UNC’s Mack Brown and UofSC’s Will Muschamp

I certainly feel like the relationship between UNCs head coach and UofSCs head coach should be talked about. The history at Texas adds to the rivalry. Great game today! Glad to see this game picking up popularity. Carolina Football (talk) 23:43, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Vandalism from Tar Heel fans

“Destroyed”, mentioning of sacks, Claiming to be the real Carolina permanently should be considered vandalism. I will fix it but I don’t know how to report an IP address. This article should have extra protection after each game win given a heavily Tar Heel base of editors left this vandalism up for multiple months.BigCheddah (talk) 05:37, 9 October 2023 (UTC)