Talk:Norfolk Southern GP33ECO
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Horsepower
[edit]Trains says these have an 12-710ECO prime mover producing 3000 hp. AltoonaWorks.info, which I'm not familiar with but appears to be a railfanning site, says 3300 hp. I think we have to go with Trains as the reliable source, barring additional information. Mackensen (talk) 16:09, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- The new 12N-710G3B-T3 has been uprated to 3300hp in the same manner that the V16 is now pushing 4500hp up from 4300hp. Trains magazine is just as much as a fan publication as any other. Here we have a person who provides beat reporting on Altoona works, with detailed production schedules and technical info. Moreover NS has designated it the GP33, signifying 3300hp. The slightly earlier generation engine in the SD32ECO is 3150hp, which matches information on Wikipedia's own page on the EMD 710 showing the 12N-710G3B series rated for 3200. Finally the Trains article is behind a paywall and cannot be easily verified.Sturmovik (talk) 17:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- Trains isn't just a fan publication, though. It's published. It's usually considered reliable. That it's behind a paywall is irrelevant; we always assume good faith with such sources. How do I know that AltoonaWorks provides "beat reporting"? Who owns it? How do I know it's reliable? What is the basis of its information? The 12-710ECO isn't listed on EMD 710 at all; the table there is unreferenced. I'm not an expert on locomotives and I cannot reconcile the claim from AltoonaWorks that the GP33ECO uses a 12N-710G3B-T3 with the claim in Trains that it uses a 12-710ECO. Complicating matters, here's an article in RailwayAge which says it has a 12N-710G3B-T3 but says 3,000 hp. Mackensen (talk) 18:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- If it's behind a paywall then it cannot be verified except by paying for the subscription. That makes the information inherently non-verifiable by an average editor. The 3000hp rating goes against the previously established ratings for EMD 12-710 engines and is likely a typo that has been subsequently mid-reported. Main stream publications designed for a mass frequently have problems with technical details. Altoonaworks has a track record of accurate technical information. Anyway, I will do more research and find additional sources to refute the 3000hp claim.Sturmovik (talk) 18:10, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- Well, per WP:PAYWALL, we're not supposed to give a source less weight because it's behind a paywall. The existence of the RailwayAge article makes that point moot. If you give me a reliable source that makes it clear they're reporting a technical error (yes, it wouldn't be the first time) then I would be content with that. Mackensen (talk) 18:35, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- I talked to the person who runs the Altoona works website and confirms the 12-710 engines are rated for 3300hp, but the locomotives are limited by software to 3000. He made changes to his web page to reflect this.Sturmovik (talk) 09:51, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
- Interesting! That resolves the discrepancy. Thanks for taking the time on this. Mackensen (talk) 14:36, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
- I talked to the person who runs the Altoona works website and confirms the 12-710 engines are rated for 3300hp, but the locomotives are limited by software to 3000. He made changes to his web page to reflect this.Sturmovik (talk) 09:51, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
- Well, per WP:PAYWALL, we're not supposed to give a source less weight because it's behind a paywall. The existence of the RailwayAge article makes that point moot. If you give me a reliable source that makes it clear they're reporting a technical error (yes, it wouldn't be the first time) then I would be content with that. Mackensen (talk) 18:35, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- If it's behind a paywall then it cannot be verified except by paying for the subscription. That makes the information inherently non-verifiable by an average editor. The 3000hp rating goes against the previously established ratings for EMD 12-710 engines and is likely a typo that has been subsequently mid-reported. Main stream publications designed for a mass frequently have problems with technical details. Altoonaworks has a track record of accurate technical information. Anyway, I will do more research and find additional sources to refute the 3000hp claim.Sturmovik (talk) 18:10, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- Trains isn't just a fan publication, though. It's published. It's usually considered reliable. That it's behind a paywall is irrelevant; we always assume good faith with such sources. How do I know that AltoonaWorks provides "beat reporting"? Who owns it? How do I know it's reliable? What is the basis of its information? The 12-710ECO isn't listed on EMD 710 at all; the table there is unreferenced. I'm not an expert on locomotives and I cannot reconcile the claim from AltoonaWorks that the GP33ECO uses a 12N-710G3B-T3 with the claim in Trains that it uses a 12-710ECO. Complicating matters, here's an article in RailwayAge which says it has a 12N-710G3B-T3 but says 3,000 hp. Mackensen (talk) 18:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)