Talk:Noel Francisco

Free image

Any pic of him posted at a .gov site should be free. Please keep an eye out. Once should present itself soon. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:35, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Plagiarism?

I don't know what Wikipedia's standards on lifting verbiage from other sources are, but this article would easily earn an automatic fail if it were submitted as a paper at pretty much any educational institution in the United States because it is blatantly plagiarizing the DOJ's official biography of Francisco (if you copy whole sentences, not even including a citation can obviate you from the charge of plagiarism unless you put the words you have copied in quotation marks). So, is this a problem? I'm going to highlight the specific sentences that are problems, but it's almost the entire current "Biography" section. 107.145.77.108 (talk) 12:54, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

1. "He received his Bachelor of Arts degree with honors in 1991 from the University of Chicago. He received his Juris Doctor with high honors in 1996 from the University of Chicago Law School. After law school, Francisco served as a law clerk first for Judge J. Michael Luttig of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, and then for Associate Justice Antonin Scalia of the U.S. Supreme Court." These three sentences are lifted verbatim (and in the same order) from the DOJ biography, with only the following cosmetic changes: (1) "B.A" became "Bachelor of Arts degree," (2) "J.D." became "Juris Doctor," (3) the word "Mr." was deleted before "Francisco in the final sentence, and (4) "United States" was changed to "U.S." At any college in America this would count as plagiarism (even with the citation at the end of the paragraph). 107.145.77.108 (talk) 12:58, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

2. "From 2001 to 2003, Francisco served in the Office of Counsel to the President as Associate Counsel to President George W. Bush, and from 2003 to 2005 he served as Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the United States Department of Justice, Office of Legal Counsel." This sentence has been lifted verbatim from the DOJ biography, with the following two cosmetic changes: (1) the word "Mr." was deleted before "Francisco" and (2) "U.S." was changed to "United States." At any college in America this would count as plagiarism (even with the citation at the end of the sentence). 107.145.77.108 (talk) 13:00, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

3. "He was a partner in the Washington, D.C. office of Jones Day, where he was the chair of the Firm’s Government Regulation Practice. While at Jones Day, he appeared several times before the Supreme Court, including in McDonnell v. United States, which involved the meaning of “official act” under federal bribery statutes; Zubik v. Burwell, which involved the application of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act to regulations related to insurance coverage for contraception; and NLRB v. Noel Canning, which involved the Constitution’s recess appointment power. He has also argued numerous cases in the lower federal and state courts on a wide range of constitutional, civil, and criminal matters." These three sentences are lifted verbatim (and in the same order) from the DOJ biography, with only the following cosmetic changes: (1) the introductory clause "Prior to joining the Justice Department" was deleted from the first sentence and (2) periods were added to "D.C." At any college in America this would count as plagiarism (even with the citation at the end of the paragraph). 107.145.77.108 (talk) 13:04, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

You appear to make a valid claim. I'm just off to bed, but after a quick check of item one, I see verbatim content from https://www.justice.gov/osg/staff-profile/meet-acting-solicitor-general. That site is US public domain, as far as I know. That means the editor may use the entire content without modifying it without fear of plagarism or copyright violation, provided that it is attributed. I am sorry if I am incorrect here, or incomplete, but other are welcome to comment. I will check back tomorrow and comment/respond further. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:59, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I just added {{|USGovernment|sourceURL=https://www.justice.gov/osg/staff-profile/meet-acting-solicitor-general}} to the bottom of the article. I hope this helps and is appropriate. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:12, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

You can't plagiarize a public domain source, particular when attribution has been made. A few copies of very rote biographical material are not improper on a short term basis when taken from a public domain source and all information at the DOJ is public domain. And I do intend to rewrite much of this information soon and it likely will be majorly rewritten by other editors as well. The material should be rewritten and will be rewritten. Safiel (talk) 15:13, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Hell, the announcement at the White House site is itself essentially a rip of the DOJ Bio. Safiel (talk) 15:21, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I have rewritten the largest paragraph. The education paragraph just lists his school and clerkships and doesn't lend itself to any effective rewrite. Safiel (talk) 15:41, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. 107.145.77.108 (talk) 16:37, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Safiel. To avoid this issue in the future, please observe the guideline Wikipedia:Public domain which says "...attribution to the author or source of a work, even if it is in the public domain, is still required in order to comply with relevant policies..." and glue {{USGovernment}} to the bottom of the page at the time the content is added. I'm not sure if a citation at the end of the text is even enough to keep within the rules. However, that template may help prevent future discussions such as this.

Thank you Safiel for expanding the article. I trust you were acting in good faith in believing that US PD text was copy pastable without attribution. Thank you IP for bringing this to our attention. I trust you were looking out for the authors of the text and well as Wikipedia's legal integrity. My best wishes to all. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:11, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

• Important clarification I wanted to clarify, before this discussion closes, that I DID provide attribution via references. I simply did not use the attribution TEMPLATE. Just wanted to point that out. Otherwise, everything else in this discussion should be settled now. Safiel (talk) 16:41, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Good point. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:50, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Ground Zero on demise of Trump and Russian investigation

and not a peep of discussion? really. This should be very active on what is included in the article. On appearance and a POV, thus not suggesting inclusion into article, and not presenting for discussion; he is the silver bullet Trump will fire to end the investigation, as being widely reported. When this happens, it moves to New York state to jail the perpetrators of financial frauds. --Wikipietime (talk) 00:35, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

@Wikipietime: When you say "widely reported", do you mean "widely reported in reliable sources"? Because if you do, please post those sources here, and I'll be happy to incorporate their content into the article. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 05:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/09/the-number-three-person-at-justice-is-resigning-heres-how-that-affects-mueller/?utm_term=.8a90629c624a

That source is already in use as a citation for the article. I'm still trying to figure out what information from the source is what you want added - for example, I don't see anything about Trump's intention to use Francisco to end the investigation. Maybe you can clarify the situation by pointing to a sentence or two in the source that you think is still missing from the Wikipedia article. Otherwise, we're in WP:NOR territory. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 17:56, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Also, on a side note; it is remarkable the Russian influence in the Syracuse, NY area and a long time Trump fluffer as noted here http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/03/oswegos_noel_francisco_likely_solicitor_general_legal_star_never_forgot_his_home.html

--Wikipietime (talk) 17:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, you lost me completely. Who is a "long-time Trump fluffer"? And why do you think Russia has a lot of influence in the Syracuse area? (That wouldn't be from immigration, it appears - http://www.manliuslibrary.org/2016/10/wrap-up-the-ethnic-history-of-syracuse/ .) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 17:56, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Oswego's Noel Francisco, likely solicitor general: legal star never forgot his home

"Four years out of law school, he joined the legal team that worked on the Florida recount for George W. Bush in the 2000 presidential election and his career really "took off".

Would like to see the above proposal included in the BLP or at least some mention of career accelerator.

http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/03/oswegos_noel_francisco_likely_solicitor_general_legal_star_never_forgot_his_home.html

--Wikipietime (talk) 17:30, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

I've added his role in the 2000 recount. But I'm not willing to accept, as definitive, the opinion of a local newspaper writer as to when a person's career "took off". -- John Broughton (♫♫) 17:42, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

N.F. would replace Rod Rosenstein ...

The man who could fire Mueller

His name is mentioned in that context . If this goes on, we should (sooner or later) mention that in the article. --Neun-x (talk) 22:01, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Whom did he represent

It would be helpful to know whether he represented the plaintiff or the defense in each of the law cases that the article cites. Mdmi (talk) 01:27, 16 November 2019 (UTC)