Talk:Na'aran (Israeli settlement)

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Region error

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for

Shouldn't this be region:PS?

—Padres Hana (talk) 16:01, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Declined — The problem is that {{Infobox Israel village}} doesn't support a region change: it automatically makes the region "IL" and your attempted fix did nothing to change it. If this village is in PS (and I don't care to take a position one way or the other on that issue), then the infobox itself would need to be changed in order to change the region, but that's an infobox problem not a coordinates problem so I'm declining the coordinate fix request. — TransporterMan (TALK) 18:09, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Legality

Consensus is required in order to modify the boilerplate WP:Legality of Israeli settlements text. Two days ago an editor introduced a modified text without obtaining consensus. He needs to revert his edit and restore the original formula or obtain consensus for his modified proposal:

The international community considers Israeli settlements in the West Bank, including Niran,^[1] illegal under international law, but the Israeli government disputes this.^[2]

—Biosketch (talk) 19:03, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I think think the modified text is going in the right direction, but you are right, we should stick to the agreed text until such time as there is a consensus for a changed text or to do away with the standard text altogether. Dlv999 (talk) 19:44, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ See Annex 1. Division for Palestinian Rights (1984-07-01), Israeli settlements in Gaza and the West Bank (Part II), United Nations, retrieved 2012-05-28 {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
^ "The Geneva Convention". BBC News. 10 December 2009. Retrieved 27 November 2010.

Monopoly over "Na'aran" name

The ancient village is arguably more famous (Na'aran synagogue, aqueduct, etc.). It is usually written Na'aran, with apostrophe, not Naaran. I see zero reason why the settlement, initially called Niran, should get primacy, let alone accaparate the correctly transliterated name all by itself. Arminden (talk) 16:13, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Arminden: There are multiple issues with both this article and the other one. First, the alleged ancient site is not nearby but 8.5km away. Second, the coords given in the other article do not coincide with the text. The other article says "the ruin Tel el-Jisr, in the heart of the newer village, now known as Nu'eimah, about 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) north of Jericho". I'm unable to confirm "Tel el-Jisr" from any other source, including detailed maps, but Nu'eimah is confirmed by other sources which say "Ein el-Duk" which is on the west side of Nu'eimah (this is confusing because Nu'eimah is a suburb of Jericho and also a previously separate town centered a few km away). I'll write more on the other talk page; meanwhile I will remove the archaeology incorrectly attributed to this location and rename the article. Zero^talk 04:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Zero0000: Thanks. I checked in Negev & Gibson (2001). They write the name of the ancient village w/o apostrophe, while Hachlili does use one. Maybe because Negev is old-school and Gibson is British. They cite Josephus and Eusebius, and place it, probably based on the latter, "about 5 miles from Jericho".

Synagogue of Ayn ad-Duk = Na'aran Syn., clear case (Osama Hamdan & Carla Benelli (2008). The dispersion of cultural heritage in Palestine: the case of the 6th century mosaic of the Synagogue of Ayn al Duk (Na'aran) in Jericho). Weird, because Duk and Na'aran, as far as I know, are 2 distinct springs. Both were used by Herod. Ah, here we go: "Hydrology: Zone 9 contains three springs: ‘Ayn al-Duyuk, ‘Ayn al-Nueima, and ‘Ayn

Shusha. Additional water passed through this area via aqueducts from the large ‘Ayn al-

‘Auja to the north out of the Jericho plain." (p. 27 of BEYOND THE WALLS OF JERICHO: KHIRBET AL-MAFJAR AND THE SIGNATURE LANDSCAPES OF THE JERICHO PLAIN(2015); maps: pp. 4, 18). A cluster of 3 springs. In the thesis on p. 100 you have 'Ayn Duyuk/Doq, so Duyuk and Doq/Duk are the same spring. Another paper (IAA) groups the same springs together: "...springs flow...in the Vradim–Bi‘ana Formation ('En Shusha, ‘En ed-Duyuk, 'Ein Nu‘eima, ‘Ein Fara, ‘Ein Qelt and ‘Ein el-Fawwar)", where all the former 3 are from the Nueima cluster, and all the latter 3 from Wadi Qelt.

Netzer has dealt in detail with Herod's aqueducts, and maybe also the La Sapienza team more recently.

I guess the Nu'eimah suburb is named after the wadi, so clearly distinct from the village and probably east of it. The wadi cuts west to east all across the area north of Jericho, see maps above.

Tell el-Jisr, Bridge Mound, is probably named after the (once?) well-preserved Na'aran aqueduct segment crossing a valley (probably Wadi Nu'eimah/Na'aran), a classical Roman aqueduct with 2 tiers of arches. Arminden (talk) 08:28, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Arminden: I copied this to the other talk page and replied there. Zero^talk 09:52, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] See Annex 1. Division for Palestinian Rights (1984-07-01), Israeli settlements in Gaza and the West Bank (Part II), United Nations, retrieved 2012-05-28 {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

[BBC_GC4-2] "The Geneva Convention". BBC News. 10 December 2009. Retrieved 27 November 2010.

[1]

[2]