Talk:Nina Baginskaya

moving page

Hi, I'm going to move this page in good faith that it was accidentally named this way. It looks like the initial author titled the page "Nina Bahinskaya" but accidentally created it as "Nina Baginskaya". As "Nina Bahinskaya" is used interchangeably through the article (I've corrected some instances of Baginskaya to Bahinskaya for consistency) I think this should be the case. It also appears this way in most Belarusian sources. Arianna the First (talk) 21:16, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

This was moved without discussion on 22 November, with the comment that 'the initial creator made a mistake': It was reverted the same night by by the original editor who obviously felt he hadn’t. Also, if different spellings were found interchangeably when this was checked it would have been more appropriate to check the original text, not make an assumption, and then move the page based on that assumption. Xyl 54 (talk) 02:39, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 23 November 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Current name, used by initial editor, is the common name in English language sources. (non-admin closure) Xyl 54 (talk) 02:33, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

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Nina Baginskaya → Nina Bahinskaya – This article was moved to the new name then moved back. Given that there is not an established WP:COMMONNAME in english, we should use WP:BELARUSIANNAMES for her name. blindlynx (talk) 17:04, 23 November 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. BD2412 T 21:17, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment: Most English publications use "Baginskaya." Changing to tranliteration "Bahiskaya" or rather "Bahinskaja" creates unnecessary confusion among the English-speaking readers. The page was posted in the English Wikipedia and not transliterated Wikipedia. For the same reasons, we do not translate "Менск" to "Mensk" in English, but rather use "Minsk," or "Беларусь" to "Bielaruś" instead of "Belarus." I propose to keep "Baginskaya" as a main version. Although if there is an alternative to keep a redirected version "Bahinskaya" from "Baginskaya," that could be an option too. Partizan Kuzya (talk), 23 November 2020

Both Менск and Беларусь have long established names in english whereas Ніна Багінская does not. Moreover, we should be using russian transliteration for someone who is decidedly not russian. blindlynx (talk) 17:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Response: "Baginskaya" has already an established name because this version was covered in major news:

• Time: "This Great-Grandmother Is an Icon of Belarus Protests"
• Vice: Belarus' 73-Year-Old Protest Icon Among Hundreds of Women Detained in Minsk
• BBC News: Belarus protests: Opposition icon, 73, among hundreds detained in Minsk
• The Guardian: Belarus: dozens of peaceful female protesters thrown into vans by riot police
• The Asian Age: Fearing persecution, Belarus activists flee to Lithuania
• Vatican News: Belarus admits detaining hundreds after massive rallies
• Politico: U.S. stands with European Union to push for new election in Belarus
• Kyiv Post: Belarusian retirees protesting in Minsk, other cities
• Euro News: Europe needs a new plan for Belarus and eastern Europe
• The Atlantic: Opposition activist Nina Baginskaya...

And those are just few news outlets and articles. "Baginskaya" is a predominant version used in English literature as of now. --Partizan Kuzya (talk) 18:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nomination and per WP:BELARUSIANNAMES which resulted, after a lengthy discussion, in Talk:Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya#Requested move 14 August 2020 remaining in its Belarusian form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Strongly Oppose: But appreciate your support. Reviewing Talk:Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya#Requested move 14 August 2020, not many Belarusians were involved in the discussion of renaming Tikhanovskaya. The subtlety of the use of the two official languages is more intuitive to Belarusians. Partizan Kuzya (talk) 04:18, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Comment: I have a problem with spelling Nina's last name as "Baginskaya" not only because it's clearly a translation from Russian (a language Nina doesn't speak as her first language, as far as I can tell), but also because I am until now not entirely sure that her last name in Russian would even /be/ "Baginskaya". Again, I have never heard/read Nina speak Russian, so whenever she introduces herself, she says her surname in Belarusian (Багінская), so her surname in Russian could be either Багинская or Богинская, the latter of which would translate to Boginskaya in English. I have seen both versions from Russian-language Belarusian sources and I am unsure which one is correct. As Nina is a strictly Belarusian speaker, I believe it would make sense to use the translation from Belarusian, especially when there is ambiguity in how her last name is actually spelled in a different language that she doesn't speak to begin with. Sennowa (talk) 16:53, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

• Response: → Using the same logic, why Tikhanovskaya is renamed to Tsikhanouskaya, even though she does not use the Belarusian language? The choice of a name of a Belarusian person is a mess in English WP, unfortunately. And this ambiguity cascades further to news publications and confuses English readers, who already have to deal with the difficulty of reading Slavic names. That is why, I am proposing to use an already established in press name "Baginskaya," which is more widely used right now and more familiar to the reader. Partizan Kuzya (talk) 17:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

It is not an established common name she has only been in the anglophone public eye for a few months, moreover one is not used overwhelmingly more than the other meaning we should revert to the wiki policy of transliterating from the language she uses. Also, the use of russian transliteration for a Belarusian name is confusing. blindlynx (talk) 20:58, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Comment - Katarzyna Augustynek, the Polish equivalent of Багінская, has recently asked to be called Babcia Kasia instead of Polska Babcia. I may start her article sooner or later if noone else does - the Polish police have a similar embarrassment in handling the terrifying threat to state security of a one-grandma rioting mob. This doesn't seem to help in this article, because Багінская doesn't seem to have an overwhelmingly common nickname, while Augustynek does. Boud (talk) 17:26, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

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I’m closing this, as the current title (per WP:COMMONNAME) is correct. The English language sources in the article use 'Baginskaya' by a margin of 5 to 1; when that changes, then will be the time to apply for a page move. The reference to WP:BELARUSIANNAMES is not relevant here as a) that is an unadopted proposal, not a policy; and b) the name is already correctly transliterated in the lead sentence. The issue of her first language (and that of the other people mentioned here) is also not relevant; this is an English language encyclopaedia that follows usage in reliable sources. Xyl 54 (talk) 02:30, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

References

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.