Talk:Nicolás Otamendi

Career statistics - Atlético Mineiro

Should the season for Atlético Mineiro have it's own "total" line in the table, or should I add those games into the "total" line under Valencia? Thanks. Ben James1993 (talk) 16:15, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

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Premier League Milestone/Honours

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This is an official award/achievement given out by the Premier League itself with a medal given to each player. This is much like the Goal of the Month, Player of the Month, and Manager of the Month that the Premier League and other national leagues give out. This is an official award from the league and thus by wikipedia guidelines, if it is properly sourced, it should be included on the players page. Why is Otamendi the only player not allowed to have the Premier League Milestone award recognized in his individual honours section? Also, why am I the only one hit with vandalism accusations and edit war tags? This is ridiculous and created by a small handful of mean editors who think they can run roughshod over other editors and bully people. Please explain.Rupert1904 (talk) 22:39, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Why do you keep claiming that this is valid "by Wikipedia guidelines"? This isn't a guidelines issue, it's a factual issue. This is not an honour, it's an appearances milestone. The player didn't win anything, they just played in a lot of games. – PeeJay 23:50, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

It's an honour as defined by the league itself. On the league website they state: "Each player to reach these milestones will receive a presentation box from the Premier League containing a special medallion and a plaque commemorating their achievement." Did he not receive an award by the Premier League then and "win" something as you say? Is an individual achievement commemorated by the league/governing body of the sport in England not enough proof to you that this is an honour/achievement? Why should it be any less factual than other individual awards that are handed out by governing bodies - goal of the month, player of the month, man of the match in tournaments, top scorer in leagues or tournaments, top scorers for clubs all time, record club and national team appearances, etc? This has been deemed a noteworthy achievement by the league. You saying it's not fact is simply you making up a certain set of rules because you don't agree with the league and how they honour/commemorate achievements/milestones/records and using it to further your agenda. Rupert1904 (talk) 05:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't see the word "honour" anywhere on the league's website in relation to this. Absolutely it should be mentioned in the prose section of the player's biography, but it's not an honour, no matter how you try to spin it. Yes, he played 100 times, that's a factual thing, but whether or not something is true has no bearing on whether or not this is an "honour". – PeeJay 14:11, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

My two cents: I think we should separate, the Premier League is surely a renowned institution, and they choose to present this as an honour. I don't think, in all fairness, we at WP should follow suit, we should treat it as a milestone. Plus, 100 appearances? That's THREE seasons at the highest level, nothing more!

Politely, thus, I disagree with Rupert. That said, I will not engage in any type of reversion (or edit there at all) until a consensus has been reached. Since we are talking honours here, to put that word and "consensus" in the same sentence is like liberating Paris with roses and kisses ;)

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 10:53, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

PeeJay - but you see the word "achievement" which means he successfully accomplished something and a word that wiki editors use often as a synonym for honours. It's not whether you or I think it is an honour, it's about whether the league itself does AND they do! By your logic and by you too Quite A Character, then we should not be including goals of the month, players of the month, man of the match in major tournaments and cup finals, top scorers in leagues and tournaments, top scorers for clubs all time, record club and national team appearances, goal of the tournament, goal of the season, club player of the season, young player of the season, team of the season, etc. All it takes to get a goal of the season or a man of the match is to play in 1 game. Nothing more. By celebrating this achievement with a medal and prominently displaying on their website, the Premier League has signalled that they think playing three seasons and more at the highest level is worthy of a special honour. Rupert1904 (talk) 16:02, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

No, the word "achievement" is not always a synonym for "honour", and I think it's quite disingenuous of you to suggest that it is. If David de Gea keeps three more clean sheets in the Premier League, he will have 100 in his career. I would fully expect the Premier League to acknowledge this in some way, but even if they give him some sort of plaque, trophy or medal, I wouldn't say he's won any sort of honour, he's just reached a certain landmark. The same applies to Otamendi playing in 100 matches; it's just something he's done, not something he's achieved by being especially better than anyone else. – PeeJay 17:20, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

As already explained, it is not a honour. "Just" a milestone. WP:DROPTHESTICK Kante4 (talk) 18:17, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

As I have already explained on numerous occasions as well, the league has decided it is an honour. It's not you or I making that decision. If De Gea gets 100 clean sheets and the league decides to honour him with a medal then it should be included in his individual honours section. Why is this any different than putting in "just a milsetone" in honours sections like goals of the month, players of the month, man of the match in major tournaments and cup finals, top scorers in leagues and tournaments, top scorers for clubs all time, record club and national team appearances, goal of the tournament, goal of the season, club player of the season, young player of the season, team of the season? Why do you think a man of the match or a goal of the season is an honour that should be recorded in individual honours section? By your argument then, What did that player "win"? This should not be about our opinions but a decision made by a governing body to award an achievement. You even called it a "trophy" and a trophy is defined as "a cup or other decorative object awarded as a prize for a victory or success." Before the league started giving out this trophy I was on your side but since they are giving out an award/trophy/plaque then we as wiki editors should include that in players honours sections. Therefore, I would argue then that you are being the disingenuous one. Rupert1904 (talk) 18:29, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Whats with the forked conversation, we've already been through this at WP:FOOTBALL and everyone thinks differently Rupert, if you can't see that all that you're being is disruptive. Govvy (talk) 18:31, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

What's with you not understanding it should not about your thoughts or my thoughts. It's about an honour, a trophy that your peers called it themselves, that the league has given out. None of you have actually had a civil discussion about this. It's just a pissing contest with your opinions. Use facts please. Rupert1904 (talk) 18:39, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.