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Talk:Nick Ward (soccer, born 1985)

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WikiProject class rating

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 00:14, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Australian footballer - ambiguous. Suggest move

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Most players of Aussie Rules are listed here just like Nick, e.g Greg Williams (Australian footballer). Those entries are unlikely to change any time soon, and I'm pretty sure Nick's fans would hate to see him thought of as an Aussie Rules player. Other "soccer" players tend to have the word Association added to the title.

I propose that this article be moved (renamed) to Nick Ward (Australian Association footballer). HiLo48 (talk) 08:40, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Your proposed title is overly precise, as association football is a type of football. If there actually was an Aussie rules player of this name, then, yes, your title would be the best option. But there is not, so need to disambiguate further because "Australian footballer" implies "a footballer of any code who is Australian", which is correct. Also, the standard WP:FOOTY (the fact that there is project is still at that name is a discussion for another day) practice for disambiguation is actually to use the year of birth, which is stupid in my opinion. See Nick Ward (footballer born 1977) for an example.

That said, I did move the article to the present title, so you may wish to start up a requested move if you disagree, as I think you and I are probably the only active contributors watching this page.

Just as an FYI, most Aussie rules players are not listed like Nick is. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject AFL/Archive 5#Australian footballer vs. Australian rules footballer for the most recent discussion. Jenks24 (talk) 14:13, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Australian footballer" as a description for a player of football (of any code) should be avoided, due to the contentious nature of the description, which could mean a player from any code of football. And I don't think a player from one code should be considered more deserving over another player from another code for the description, Australian footballer.
And so, as players of Australian football use the common name of their sport in the description of their name, then association footballers should also use the common name of their sport in the description of their names. Therefore, we should move the article for Greg Williams (Australian footballer) to Greg Williams (Australian rules footballer) and move the article for Nick Ward (Australian footballer) to Nick Ward (Australian soccer player). --124.180.168.76 (talk) 10:35, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that there IS a code of football known as "Australian football", and it's not the code Nick plays. For any Australian not already knowing about Nick (even the rugby kinds), I'd suggest that the first guess they would make from this title is that Nick plays "Australian football". Yes, the article quickly clarifies that it's not, but why not make the title totally precise and non-ambiguous too? HiLo48 (talk) 20:34, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Aussie rules is officially known as that, but Australian soccer is also known as "Australian football". "but why not make the title totally precise and non-ambiguous too?" Because, in my opinion, it is overly precise. We try to have article titles as short as possible and your suggestion would have wide reaching implications. By your logic, is every article with "(footballer)" as the disambiguation ambiguous? Should they all be expanded to "(Association footballer)" or "(Australian rules footballer)", even when there is no other footballer of that name? Jenks24 (talk) 09:29, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What's wrong with precision? Nothing, it's always a good thing, particularly when there are confusing terms used and therefore ambiguity ensures! BTW Since when are soccer players from Australia called "Australian footballers"? A very imprecise and confusing term to use! --124.180.168.76 (talk) 10:05, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I must say that you really surprise me when you say that it doesn't matter what kind of football the title suggests he plays. To you he's just a footballer, of any kind. Doesn't seem a very sensible categorisation to me. Oh well, I'm not planning to to push hard on this. Wait and see if anyone else cares. HiLo48 (talk) 10:08, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Just had a personal realisation over in the perpetual discussions at Talk:Soccer in Australia. To people on the rugby side of the Barassi Line (Sydney, Brisbane, etc), "football" is a flexible word. For over 100 years it meant some form of "rugby", and the recent addition of it also meaning "soccer" has perhaps happened fairly smoothly. But on the Aussie Rules side of the line, "football" has, for 150 years, meant only one thing, Aussie Rules. That means that, to people there, "Australian footballer" means only one thing, someone who plays "Australian football". I suspect that perspective is not so obvious to someone from Sydney. But it's true. Nick Ward is from Perth, one of those places where describing him as an "Australian footballer" means that he plays "Australian football". It really must be changed. The lead now says "he is an Australian soccer player". So should the article title. HiLo48 (talk) 08:19, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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