Talk:New standard tuning/Archive 1

Archive 1

Fixing section on Downside

It seems to me that it's a little unrealistic. It's fairly obvious that your voicing will change when you change the tunings. However, there are still reasonable voicing of 9th chords and 9b5(which is what the article really seems to be talking about). --Capi crimm (talk) 21:35, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. There is some validity to the section in that indeed, the intervals between strings are longer, but I have no problem making 9th chords, either. The 9b5 is a tricky cluster, but achievable in the space of 2 frets. The biggest problem I have had with NST is OST guitarists freaking out trying to get a clue from what my hands are doing!--Dukeres (talk) 02:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I modified the section to reflect the difficulty in recreating some OST clusters without the attitude present in the old text.--Dukeres (talk) 02:46, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

DAB name, please

Click on the link on Steve Ball's name. I suppose this footballer Steve Ball is not the person mentioned in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Telep (talk • contribs) 09:17, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

The link was updated to Steve Ball (musician) some time ago.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:53, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

String tension and gauge

Could someone please explain how tuning the top two strings (normally E and B) up does not snap them? I've almost snapped those string by tuning them only one whole step higher -- so how does that work?

Also, it is inconsistent with another page: The tuning is similar to all fifths except the first string is dropped from b' to g'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_tuning

Sp3z1aL 00:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The strings don't snap because a set with different gauges is used - top G .010 or .011; E .013 and so forth. There is also the problem of taking the bottom string from E down to C, which makes it a bit floppy, so a thicker gauge would be used there. Sometimes (particularly in the early days) NST would be tuned from EADGBE and, yes, strings would snap.

The statement from the other page is not untrue, but not terribly helpful either. Grangousier 23:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I have switched my strings to compensate for the slack 'bottom' strings. It's all about the gauges. I use .054 .042 .036 .016 .011 .009 with great success and stability on a Ibanez Jem equipped with a floyd rose tremolo. Oddly enough the .016 breaks the most often, mostly due to my unnecessarily violent left hand tremolo technique. Your mileage may vary!--Dukeres 21:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I have since changed gauges and have even greater stability with the gauges: .062 .046 .026 .017 .010 .009... I don't break these .017's. --Dukeres (talk) 02:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Based on the comments above, it seems the article could use a section on NST string gauges, along with a caution about OST string gauges being somewhat different; otherwise somebody may read it and break perfectly good strings. --AC 02:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's like this: regardless of your tuning schemes, there are no right and wrong answers, it's all about the tension you are after, the sort of playing you do. I needed a tighter low end for harder strumming, so I switched to such a massive low-end string. I use strings from a baritone set but there is a set (GHS' 'Zack Wilde' boomers ) that has gauges that make a good 'turn-key' solution that avoids the waste I endure to get most of the strings I want in a single set. My apologies to the community if using a brand name is a faux pas.--Dukeres (talk) 02:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

John Pearce's set of strings .011, .013, .022, .032, .047, .058 is still produced.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:23, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Table

Steel-string gauges for acoustic guitars

G 1	E 2	A 3	D 4	G 5	C 6	Source
0.011	0.013	0.023	0.032	0.046	0.056	Guitar Craft Services
0.012	0.015	0.023	0.032	0.046	0.060	Guitar Craft Services
0.011	0.013	0.022	0.032	0.047	0.058	John Pearce [1], recommended by Curt Golden [2] and Joan Bull [3]
0.011p	0.013p	0.022w	0.032w	0.047w	.058w (0.59w)	Curt Golden [4]
0.011	0.013	0.022w	0.032w	0.047w	0.058w	Joan Bull, according to Elephant Talk (King Crimson fansite) [5]
0.009	0.010	0.017	0.026	0.046	0.062	User:Dukeres ("violent left hand tremolo technique") [6]
0.008p	0.012p	0.015w	0.026w	0.042w	0.052w	Curt Golden (electric) [7]
0.008	0.010	0.017	0.026	0.042	0.054	John McGann (electric) [8]
0.010	0.012	0.016	0.024	0.038	0.052	Robert Fripp

Incorrect octave shown in notation

The music manuscript notation showing the tuning (both diagrams) are in the incorrect octave. An "8" is needed beneath the treble clef and bass clef to show that the tuning is an octave lower. Deluno (talk) 14:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

An improved notation may be desirable, and necessary for musical-theory propriety. On the other hand, guitar music is often written this way (since the transposition is known to guitarists), and so this usage may well follow convention/reliable sources. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:17, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

From Russian Wikipedia:

Can somebody help translate this, please? Thanks! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:50, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

New Standard Tuning's open strings.

Также известный как «Crafty tuning». Строй разработанный музыкантом Робертом Фриппом и используемый им с 1983 года. В отличие от классического «квартового» строя, строй предложенный Робертом Фриппом ближе к смычковым струнным инструментам, причем первая, вторая и третья струны настраиваются аналогично скрипке.{{.ref|<ref>{{cite web|author=Максим Волгин|date=11 мая 1998 года|url=http://guitar.ru/musicians/biography/biography_175.html|title=Роберт Фрипп, биография|publisher=|accessdate=2010-07-02|archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/66gGLG4OV|archivedate=2012-04-05}}</ref> Настройка в этот строй может потребовать замены нижних струн на более толстые, а верхних — на тонкие. }} right|200px|frame|«Новый стандартный строй» в нотной записи

Струна	Нота	Частота (в герцах)
Первая	g¹ (соль первой октавы)	392.00
Вторая	e¹ (ми первой октавы)	329.63
Третья	a (ля малой октавы)	220.00
Четвёртая	d (ре малой октавы)	147.83
Пятая	G (соль большой октавы)	98.00
Шестая	C (до большой октавы)	65.41

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Two articles: New Standard Tuning and New standard tuning?

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
A kind IP editor raised the following concern.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:19, 9 May 2012 (UTC) Confusing content Am I the only one who has noticed that if you go to Robert Fripp and follow the link to New Standard Tuning, you wind up at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Standard_Tuning , but if you try to edit it, you wind up at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_standard_tuning , which are two different pages with different but similar content? Excerpt from New Standard Tuning: "The New Standard Tuning (NST) is a guitar tuning with a greater range than traditional ("old standard") tuning. The strings are assigned the note sequence CGDAEG. The five lowest strings are tuned in perfect fifths, the tuning used for mandolins, and violins. The highest string is a G. String sets for the traditional tuning have problems being adapted to the New Standard Tuning, because the low strings are too loose and the highest strings are too taught and may snap. The New Standard Tuning's high G requires less string tension than would the higher C; all-fifths tuning has been implemented on guitars with reinforced necks and with special strings, which can tolerate even higher tension." Excerpt from New standard tuning: "Among tunings for guitars, the New Standard Tuning (NST) has greater range than traditional ("old standard") tuning (OST) in which the strings receive the notes EADGBE. In NST, the strings are assigned CGDAEG. The greater range allows NST-guitars to play songs like The Moonlight Sonata that are impossible using OST. NST was introduced by Robert Fripp, who is known as a lead guitarist for King Crimson. Fripp taught the new standard tuning in Guitar-Craft courses beginning in 1985, and thousands of Guitar Craft students continue to use the tuning. Like other alternative tunings for guitar, the NST has provided challenges and new opportunities to guitarists, who have developed music especially suited to NST. Unsigned comment by User:151.213.250.130 19:17, May 9, 2012 Copied and reformatted by  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:28, 9 May 2012 (UTC) Reply The two pages seem to be the same article. The capitalized version is redirected to the WP-formatted version. Perhaps you looked at an old revision?  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:30, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

On deleting the section about tuning, harmonics, etc.

I am deleting the following section since it contains a lot of factual errors and doesn't even make sense:

Because NST is also pentatonic in nature (there are no thirds in the open strings if you consider C or G as the root), its natural harmonics also make it easier to tune than the OST which has a major third (which is technically 'out of tune' by definition in a non-equal-tempered instrument such as a guitar) stuck right in the middle of its open strings (G-B). In NST, tuning is possible via the first harmonic rather than the more-awkward second-harmonic tuning which many OST players use to tune their guitars.

• It's not clear what "no thirds in the open strings" could mean. There is a major third (plus two octaves) between the C and E strings, and there is a minor third between the consecutive E and G strings.
• The guitar is equal-tempered, not non-equal-tempered.
• The equal tempered third (and all other intervals) are by definition in tune, although non-unisons and non-octaves may sound out of tune when compared to a just interval.
• Either the term "harmonic" has been used when "overtone" would have been correct, or the harmonics are misnumbered. The first harmonic is the lowest pitch the string will vibrate at, i.e., the pitch of the open string. The pitch that sounds at the 12th fret is the second harmonic, also known as the first overtone.
• The advantage that NST has over OST when tuning with 12th fret harmonics is not made clear; it doesn't seem to have any advantage at all. Tuning with the second harmonic (12th fret) can be done equally well (or awkwardly, as the case may be) in either tuning. In both NST and OST it would usually involve tuning a harmonic on one string with a fretted note on another. (Side note: the 7th fret harmonic is out of tune with the equal-tempered scale, don't use it to tune with any equal-tempered tuning. Further note: the harmonics of all physical strings are slightly sharp due to the stiffness of the string; this is why pianos use stretch tuning.)

Atomota 06:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

This discussion is related to the comments on the harmonics/overtones of NST and OST by Crafty guitarist and sound-engineer Steve Ball. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:31, 7 February 2013 (UTC)