Talk:New South Wales Police Force/Archive 1

Archive 1

Woods Royal Commission career comment

Is there any citation for the line concerning police who did not want to pursue a career in detective work because of the Woods Royal Commission?

Deleted that statement. No citation, baseless opinion and this is an encyclopaedia, not a newspaper (tabloid).

Historically Encyclopedias had nil references, but was learned comment that was reasonably factually self evident or 'Logically compelling', authority drawn from the reputation of the main author/editor. Original academic research has always demanded citation, but a wiki is a forum not a state/private institution of learning. Quoting lends authority, which is what quote and citation is, a mere polite observance, or legal requirement. "No citation", doesNOT equal "baseless opinion", its snake chasing its tail stuff, like we are the people feeding from its tail. More precision & detail, and less bluster would minimize conflict and emotive control by fear, and reduce dismissive hubris, a symptom of a control mind set, rather than intending sincere public service. Nor are newspapers all "baseless opinion", a throwaway insult to many hard working journalists, providing researched and contemporaneous comment or reporting, fresh reporting is always better than searching for eminent authority, to add to your own, in the eyes of most newspaper buyers. Strangely, you sound just like an newspaper editor (tabloid).[Bravidvalour, 24.1.2012 above paragraph editor] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bravidvalour (talk • contribs) 12:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Someone Edit Picture

I'm not very good with the editing but I do have a better picture of the Mitsubishi refrence photo in the "== Vehicles ==" gallery. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Policecar.png#file —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.239.194 (talk) 11:09, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree that yours is a better quality picture. I've requested "Policecar.png" be renamed over at wikimedia commons to a more specific "NSWPF Mitsubishi Lancer.png". It can be added to the the NSWPF vehicle gallery once the rename is complete. --Gth-au (talk) 13:19, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Too long?

This article is really long. I'd edit myself but I don't know how to use wikipedia markup to make a columned box for the local area command abbreviations, for example.

Organisational Structure

Added a stub section on Organisational Structure.Journeyman 06:34, 31 March 2006 (UTC) The NSW Police Force promotion systems is a disgrace. Senior rank does not mean experience. What about the experienced senior constables with over 20 to 30 years experience....they should be leading and promoted to much more senior ranks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.64.3.2 (talk) 01:39, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Rewrite

Here's my reasons for adding the rewrite tag:

• Too long
• Not NPOV
• Too many lists
• Needs to be split
• Contains many spelling errors
• Not compliant with style guidelines.

The information is still useful though, so any rewrite would need to take that info into consideration.

~Some of the information is not useful. The idea that 'After the formation of the New South Wales Police Force in 1862, most crimes were conducted by bushrangers, particularly during the Victorian gold rush years' is just ridiculous. There were very few real bushrangers, and most crime was committed in the cities. Some on the gold fields,yes, but not 'most'.110.20.12.119 (talk) 08:55, 20 August 2015 (UTC)Pamela

Pamela, good point. Is it referenced, though? Probably needs to be worked on. I encourage you to spend three minutes registering with a username. Please ask me for help if you need it (click on the green "talk"). Tony (talk) 09:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

ajdlinux 03:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

agree on need for a rewrite. I tried tackling organisational and sectioning problems and tried to balance out the section lengths and restore a sane order to the sections, but I haven't really touched the main text or the (considerable) NPOVing issues. clarkk 10:36, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

also recently an anonymous user 152.91.9.190 (talk · contribs) came along and added some useful information, but unfortunately really threw the whole structure out of whack, see: [1]. I tried at least restoring some of the original structure clarkk 10:39, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

it also looks like the rewrite tag was removed without discussion by 124.168.23.59 (talk · contribs) in this edit: [2]. clarkk 10:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The resemblance between the history section and the Thin Blue Line is remarkable... ajdlinux 03:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Edited "Confronting Bushranging" section by adding correct source (Melrose, A (1911)The trooper police of Australia. London.) Would I be correct in stating that this topic is getting to a point where we can rid the page of the comment of the article needing a complete rewrite? If so can we lose the header now?

Name is now "NSW Police Force"

The NSW Police Force name was changed years ago to NSW Police, this needs to be changed throughout the article as well as many spelling errors! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.189.19.216 (talk) 01:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

NSW Police was changed back to NSW Police Force late last year. -- Ladida 05:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually Ladida the name change was officially made on February 1st 2007. Former Police Minista Michael Costa frequently used the term but the official name still in Legislation was just 'NSW Police' which it had become in 2001. The 'Force' only came back in with a change again in legislation which took effect on the date I just mentioned. Just to be pedantic of course...

I can't see any recent change to their name in the last few years so presumably it's still NSW Police Force. The article title "New South Wales Police" simply redirects to "New South Wales Police Force" anyway. Nearly every mention in the article has the full and proper title of "NSW Police Force", except a few minor examples (e.g. where space is limited, like the vehicle gallery titles). --Gth-au (talk) 13:38, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Major Units

I don't see why the following are listed as being major units: Negotiation Unit Police Rescue & Bomb Disposal Unit State Protection Support Unit Tactical Operations Unit

All come under the one Command (State Protection Group), which itself would be the "Major Unit" and not the small individual unit itself...especially not the SPSU's.

Highway Patrol, Traffic Sercies and PORS are larger than the above units when singles out individually and can be seen as being more 'major'. YEPPOON 21:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It might be an idea for the "major units" section to reflect the information contained in the "About Us - Structure" section of the NSWPF website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.217.111.191 (talk) 00:44, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Shootings

There've been a lot of incidents across the country in the past three months of shootings by police ‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  , including a suicide. It might be worth mentioning that the NSW Police utilise ammunition that is outlawed by the Hague Convention ‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  , interestingly the government chooses to make them employ things we would not extend our own enemies during war time on it's own citizens. Jachin 08:09, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

To clarify Jachin, the Hague Conventions of 1899, Declaration III, prohibits the use in warfare of bullets which easily expand or flatten in the body, Jachin 08:39, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Plenty of other Western nations also use hollowpoint rounds in law enforcement, but not in warfare. That is by the definition of warfare as military actions on an international scale, right? Besides, hollowpoints are actually safer than full metal jacket rounds, because the latter have a tendency to pass through a target and into whatever happens to be behind him/her/it. Like a bystander; hence its use by law enforcement agencies.

---

Jachin you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and simply have an anti-Police and Government are 'evil' agenda. Law Enforcement agencies in Australia, and across the world, have used expansion rounds (aka 'hollw points') for as long as they have been around...decades and decades, for the simple fact that they are less likely to pass right through someone (or walls etc) and kill/injure an innocent bystander.

Hague Convention does not apply to Domestic law enforcement, only international warfare. It also outlaws a lot of other items still used by countries world wide regardless of whether or not they are signatories to the convention. It is also worthy of note that the Hague Conventions original phrasing and idea was aimed at preventing the practise of making lead rounds "dumdb dumb" back around the turn of the Century and clearly has little practical application to anything you could wish to drum up against LE use of expansion rounds.

Not to mention that use of firearms by police is heavily regulated and has consequences for participants of a shooting beyond what the media care to wax lyrical on. Police shoot only there is a clear danger to the public or themselves. The use of expansion rounds by police forces throughout the world is beside the point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.224.177 (talk) 10:49, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

References

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BetacommandBot 02:35, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Uniforms

Any chance of including the rank images? Seems to me this is an important part of the uniform. --58.168.205.222 11:33, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Done :-) DirectEdge (talk) 07:41, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

• Further to the rank insignia, can anyone add a blank navy blue rank slide for "Probationary Constable" as they are now issued blank navy blue slides to bring NSWPF in line with other States (ie: Victoria and Queensland).

YEPPOON (talk) 16:42, 5 July 2008

huge gap in history

from around post 1870 to late 20th century. Michellecrisp (talk) 02:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Especially in terms of police corruption. There is substantial evidence of endemic corruption throughout the NSW Police history. Particularly in gambling corruption noted in the 1930s and the 50s and narcotics corruption in 70s. Basically every 20 years there is an inquiry that discovers that NSW Police is corrupt, and then the problem is ignored for the next 20 years. I’ll try and do some research to modify the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacob Vardy (talk • contribs) 22:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Civilian (Unsworn) NSW Police Staff

I wonder if it is worth including a section detailing the number of NSW Police staff who are NOT sworn police officers (admin staff, technicians etc.) I'd guess these civilian positions make up a significant percentage of the NSW Police Force's personnel, not to mention the important role they perform within the Police Force. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.217.111.191 (talk) 00:48, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, and particularly units predominantly civilian like the Operational Communications and Information (OCI) Command. See website page http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/about_us/structure/specialist_operations/operational_communications_and_information_group —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.183.160.68 (talk) 13:14, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

There's also contradictory information regarding volunteers in the article (currently describes a trial program ending in 1994, then goes on to mention "VIP Cyclists" without explaining the acronym is not about Very Important People). As at Sept 2012 the NSWPF volunteering page is definitely still active. I'm sure there are differences between the 1992-1994 trial program and the current Volunteers In Policing, but someone more informed than I needs to provide the detail. For now, I just added a footnote in the Volunteers section. --Gth-au (talk) 12:15, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Copyright breach

I find that material in the Mounted Police section is copied from here in breach of the NSW Police copyright policy which is stated here. It should be deleted, together with any similar copyings, unless some interested editor can do a better job. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 14:54, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Facts and Figures - Currency thereof, particularly the budget

I came to this page to find the current police force budget. The figure quoted in the summary panel is very outdated. For 2014-2-15 it is $3.4b from https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/305283/PM_August_2014_p29.pdf which can only be found by searching for the word budget from the reference landing page, so at least there is a way...!

Similarly, the other three quantifications attributed to reference 4 have been removed from the nominated reference. I have not attempted to establish current figures but there is a job to do there or delete / modify / time date the given info that once relied on this reference.

When I tried to edit the reference list and the given facts summary I got unhelpful screens - given this is my first attempt to edit a wiki page it will be an operator skills thing! edit: managed to fix the summary box, still can't figure out the reference editing... Vincent11-59 (talk) 01:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)comment added by Vincent11-59 (talk • contribs) 01:33, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:New South Wales Police Force/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

Press [show] to view →

This Royal Commission which lasted approximately two years uncovered crimes and institutionalised corruption throughout the NSW Police Service (as it was then known) by a small number of officers, most notably detectives. This unexpected discovery by the Royal Commission The description of "unexpected discovery" to the discovery of corruption by the Royal Commission is not how I remember this event. The Royal Commission was forced on the government at the time by independent members of parliament after many years of reports in the press and in parliament itself of corruption in the NSW police force. So the discovery of corruption was not "unexpected". In support of the above comment I provide the following quote from the Australian newspaper (22-Sep-2006): Organised police corruption in NSW had become so widespread in the early 1990s that even the most ostrich-like politician could no longer avoid the issue. A royal commission presided over by NSW Supreme Court judge James Wood was set up by the state government in May 1994 and uncovered corruption at all levels. The public became almost blase as grainy images of police pocketing bundles of cash appeared on front pages and the evening news. ([3]) I found this entry about the NSW Police a bit one sided: looking at it thought pink colour glasses. Most of what it is said it is true, but this only shows the positive and good side of NSW police. What is missing is the bad and negative side.

Substituted at 21:53, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Police bugging 'scandal' - Operation Prospect

I've added a section about this to the page under History as there was no mention.
I think expansion is needed as it seems this event had an influence on the selection of the commish to replace Scipione. Higher ranked officer Deputy Commissioner Catherine Burn, and others(?), were 'passed over' in favour of Mick Fuller. 220 of ^Borg 06:49, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

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