Talk:New Nationalism (Theodore Roosevelt)

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Need Link for Speech

The old link provided, http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/31.htm, gives me a 404. Elakhna 01:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Requested move 24 November 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: MOVED —UY Scuti ^Talk 18:37, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

New Nationalism → New Nationalism (Theodore Roosevelt) – To make space for a new article. Երևանցի ^talk 17:06, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And also move Neo-nationalism to New Nationalism, which I have recently updated and expanded.--Երևանցի ^talk 17:06, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

support --a good idea. Rjensen (talk) 17:11, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3 December 2016

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Disambiguate per the persuasive case made by User:BrownHairedGirl, User:Cuchullain, and User:SmokeyJoe. There is clear consensus to change the status quo, and substantial support for disambiguation; it is likely that other terms can be found to add to the disambiguation page. I will do the disambig cleanup now. bd2412 T 22:32, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

– I don't see why it was moved the other way around in the first place. Most links to "New Nationalism" are currently about Roosvelt related topic (nearly 200 links), which indicates that this topic is more important and new topic should not take precedence. Or if the previous move really was somehow justified, then please do fix all links that currently refer to wrong article.

PS. This new topic shouln't be defined as something which "rose in the mid-2010s" if some links to it are also from contexts that are about earlier times. 90.191.109.9 (talk) 16:37, 3 December 2016 (UTC)) Several new suggestions have been made, and there is not consensus for any of them yet. They should be discussed before this request is closed. --Relisting. KSFT ^C 20:46, 31 December 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Brad v 21:40, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support, per nom, and good find. The link on the Roosevelt template is now directed towards the unrelated page. I'll change that but will keep watch so it's changed back if this common-sense move is made. Randy Kryn 21:04, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Question @Yerevantsi: can you explain the rationale of the original RM? In ictu oculi (talk) 08:20, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
~~Oppose~~ I proposed moving this article to "New Nationalism (Theodore Roosevelt)" per WP:PRECISE. --Երևանցի ^talk 09:10, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that WP:PRECISE is relevant here. As far as I can see "New Nationalism" would be precise enough for both articles. 90.191.109.9 (talk) 11:50, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguate. The term "new nationalism" is a simple plain English construction which can refer to a variety of movements. A Gbooks or Gscholar search for "new nationalism" shows plenty of scholarly works using the term for topics which are related to neither the Theodore Roosevelt philosophy nor the Trump/Brexit anti-immigrant/anti-globalisation right-wing populism, e.g.
1. Africa for Africans or Africa for "Natives" Only? "New Nationalism" and Nativism in Zimbabwe and South Africa
2. "The New Nationalism: Malcolm X", a chapter in Native Sons: A Critical Study of Twentieth-Century Negro American Authors
3. Yugoslavia and the New Nationalism -- about competing nationalisms in the former Yugoslavia
4. A new nationalism for a new era: The political ideology of Mexican neoliberalism
5. The new nationalism and the old history: perspectives on the West German Historikerstreit
6. Canada: the new nationalism, about nationalism in 1970s Canada
7. The New Nationalism, a 1950 article lamenting that the spirit UN was being undermined by the anti-colonial nationalism of Africa and Asia

There is lots more like that. What we have here is a generic term for which there is no primary topic. We need unambiguous names for the two narrowly-scoped articles which we currently have, and a dab page which stresses that the term has many other uses. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:44, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support moving New Nationalism to another title. Perhaps either Neo-nationalism or New Nationalism (21st century) would do. Historically speaking, it's unlikely to be to primary topic of the term over Theodore Roosevelt's New Nationalism, but only appears so because it's so much more WP:RECENT. Roosevelt's New Nationalism doesn't appear to be primary, so a two way (or more) dab page at New Nationalism seems appropriate.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:48, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Cúchullain's position. --Երևանցի ^talk 11:23, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguate both by date. Everything titled "New", "Neo", "Modern", "Post-Modern" etc that is old is inherently ambiguous, prone to be astonishing or misleading to readers who mistakenly think they know what that topic is. For example, articles such as this, titled "The new nationalism", which makes multiple historical references but no mention of Roosevelt, proves the point. This article is about an historical niche topic. I expect that many who think they know the New Nationalism couldn't date Theodore Roosevelt. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:12, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Learned Hand page linked confusingly and incorrectly to the early 21st century neo-nationalism cratermoon (talk) 21:15, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Cratermoon: Would you be ok with moving New Nationalism to "New Nationalism (21st century)" and not "Neo-nationalism"? --Երևանցի ^talk 11:15, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Hyphenated American

We should add some stuff about Hyphenated Americans. Theodore Roosevelt had some quotes about it. I think it should fit the topic of this article. Zyxrq (talk) 05:16, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]