Talk:Nepotism/Archives/2012

Irrelevant

Removed the stupid 'This article is about blah, for the Office episode...' line at the top.

Get a life people. You going to add a list of TV show references to every English word in the dictionary? If so, don't put it at the top of the page. Not every reader of this site is ignorant to the point of giving a shit what shows name what episodes what. It's great that there is an article about that particular office episode, but no one should have any trouble finding it.

Leave clean, defined pages alone. We don't need your TV trivia on every page.

—23 OCT 2011 Since Wikipedia users are arriving at this page while looking for information on the TV episode of The Office, this link should remain. Also, the user comments above this are in violation of Wikipedia Terms of Service. NozeDive (talk) 13:30, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

College Football example

I deleted the paragraph about nepotism in college football, being just an irrelevant and random example of nepotism. It seems to me it was written by someone who just wanted to voice his or her personal anger about the people involved in that particular example.

Question

Is a "nepotist" the person who hires the relative or the relative who gets hired?

Nepotism in western politics

nepotism in western countries are common to. it should be listed along with other countries. Otherwise this website is slanted. The are plenty of western countries that belong on this list.

Corporate world

Nepotism is one of the most destructive forces in the western corporate world. Family and friends - often not much more than just that - may be promoted ahead of more competent, talented and suitable staff. It doesn't take much imagination to calculate the consequences for a department or a company in the terms of loyalty and performance.

Unfounded assertion

In China, nepotism is seen in a positive light and is seen as a legitimate reason to get hired. In fact, some citizens of the People's Republic of China (PRC) sued the government of the PRC because of the Great Leap Forward-forced migrations, claiming among other things that this separation from family impacted the "possibilities of getting hired."

This paragraph seems rather unfounded. Nepotism is generally regarded as a factor of corruption which the government suffers. Although it is true that some children may take the lost jobs of their parents who were persecuted during Cutural Revolution, those were actually special cases, not the norm. I am going to remove this paragraph.

Having lived in Asian cultures, I can attest that nepotism IS viewed in a postive light by some. It is even viewed as a *responsibility.* However, this positive view is primarily held among its benifactors! Those not in the loop can view it as nothing short of the tool of oppression that it is. CyberAnth

what asian culture might that be. there are many and your comment makes no sense. I've lived in western cultures and seen the same thing. It deserves an entry also. you can say the same for the west. Family connections play a big role in getting hired and certain field, many americans get jobs they aren't qualified for, which is why so the government is so corrupt.

Fidel and Raul, nepotism or not?

While it is clear that Fidel has practiced nepotism with some other family members, I don't believe Raul is an example of it. Considering his appointment as Minister of Defense, having both been in a war, and being knowledgeable in military matters, Raul is qualified for the position. Isn't that one of the main points of nepotism, the favoring of familiar relationships over technical qualification for the post?

yes and no. yes, part of the argument against nepotism is that it results in less qualified people. however, just because the "nephew" is qualified, its doesn't mean there is not nepotism. 67.176.160.47 (talk) 01:56, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

The Clintons

How is this a case of nepotism? Expand. Hillary Clinton's father, Hugh Ellsworth Rodham, a conservative, was an executive in the textile industry, and her mother, Dorothy Emma Howell Rodham, was a homemaker. Bill Clinton's father, William Jefferson Blythe, Jr., a traveling salesman who died in a car accident three months before he was born.[1] His mother, born Virginia Dell Cassidy (1923–1994), remarried in 1950 to Roger Clinton, a car salesman. Utter liesatort.........

Anti-nepotism laws

There should be more on that section, such as what laws there are and what countries, etc. Ohyeahmormons 02:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I placed that in as a start. I will try to add material, time permitting. If someone else can beat me to it, please do. :-) CyberAnth 04:33, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

pope

Any source for the pope thing? User:Bruguiea 18:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

The Pope issue seems to be too much to claim. Seems like it has stayed here as truth for almost a year from August 2006. If there is no reliable source given, I will assume this as POV and remove the section. Thanks! Wiki San Roze ^talk 01:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the Papal section since its long been unsourced. Thanks ώЇЌĩ Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 18:45, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

In Praise of Nepotism

There's a book called In Praise of Nepotism that might be worth checking out for a counter-view. I might do it myself eventually. Recury 01:28, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Heading

If the heading is too long, why not create a section devoted to examples of Nepotism?--65.93.163.81 02:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we create a section for etymology and move the section in the introduction about etymology to it?

Jenigmat429 14:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Tony Blair

The Prime Minister would be an excellent example for this article. Lord Falconer (former flatmate), Lord Irvine (pupil Master) etc. ScMeGr 19:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC) Suggestions?

Elevating your mates (as opposed to your family) like that is called "cronyism" 90.242.102.64 (talk) 08:45, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Notes

There is no text under the notes section. Should it be removed? Dachshund2k3 00:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Etymology

For those editing this page:

Nepotism derives from "Nepote".

"Nepote" derives from it. nepote, which means cousin, and has a definition of:

1.  m. Relative and private to the Pope.

in the dictionary of the Spanish Royal Academy of Language. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.75.38.186 (talk) 21:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC).

Isn't the historical point about the use of the word for a nephew that the persons in question were not nephews at all. The use of the reference to a 'nepo' reflects the fact that it was customary to refer to the sons of the clergy in this way. It is reasonable to assume that medieval Italians were not without a sense of irony. The proscription on marriage for the clergy is almost unique to Roman Catholicism, so there is a linguistic sense in which nepotism is peculiarly Roman Catholic. The joke doesn't work unless the clergy are not supposed to have sons.

Merge with Crown Prince Party

I don't think that's a good idea. The CPP is an example for Nepotism, but Nepotism is not identical to the CPP. -85.181.9.113 23:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Offensive passage

those children who's parents participate in their childhood excel in that area later on in life, and those children who are unfortunate enough to have parents not involved in their activities usually suffer at being mediocre at best at anything they do.

I'm sure it's true that children with dedicated parents excel, however this passage generalizes and I think could be offensive to some readers. Particularly, much of Wikipedia's audience is made up of children and young adults, and the second half of the sentence uses unnecessarily provocotave language ("suffer", "mediocre at best") to inform those with fewer parental inputs that they should be expected to "suck". Wikipedia has no place making such an assertion. As this section of the sentence is also largely redundant, I will remove it.

66.233.215.126 12:43, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Singapore?

Lee dynasty, anyone? Alveolate (talk) 08:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I have added comments on the ruling famiLee--99.225.90.25 (talk) 07:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Max Gogarty

So we have Bashar al-Assad, Kim Jong-il, Qusay Hussein and Max Gogarty are examples of nepotism. What is Max Gogarty doing there? A minor storm in a teacup because he father writes for the Guardian too, and this equates him with the sons of dictators, tyrants and mass murderers. A little perspective, anyone? 89.100.206.251 (talk) 23:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Talk about storm in a teacup! Severo^TC 23:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

And to add: I'm removing it due to lack of reliable third party sources. If it's quoted as an example of nepotism on a reliable source that's not The Guardian, then the burden of inclusion has been met. However, citations from The Guardian website and official website of the father are not enough. This affair says much more about The Guardian blogs than anything else, as the online editor referred. Severo^TC 23:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Aww: Come on! It's bloody hilarious. Reinstate Gogarty! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.125.93 (talk) 01:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid something being funny does not make it encyclopaedic. And its encyclopaedic stuff on Wikipedia. Severo^TC 01:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, nerver forget that Wikipedia is Serious Business. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.57.147.74 (talk) 19:17, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

This issue requires some balance. Just add Browserbutton to here would achieve that. 221.133.101.80 (talk) 05:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

The issue really isn't that Max Gogarty is not the son of a dictator, mass murderer or tyrant. Nepotism is not restricted to those in the tyrant business at all- it is rampant in the world of media and publishing the Max Gogarty example should be included, even if only for a sense of balance and perspective. This should not need any more third party references to be a valid entry- as far as I can see the main points are already established:

Max Gogarty was employed by The Guardian - 19 year old Max Gogarty wrote a piece for the Guardian which was recieved overwhelmingly poorly by their readership and ultimately forced the section editor to reluctantly cancel the rest of his comissioned series - Max Gogarty is the son of Paul Gogarty and therefore has connections and hook-ups in the world of travel journalism

That Max Gogarty is listed alongside Bashar al-Assad, Kim Jong-il and Qusay Hussein will only ADD much needed balance and perspective to the article and will imply nothing other than the facts stated.Hahahoohoo (talk) 07:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

<outdent>Hardly. There is no proof that Max didn't get the commission on his merit alone. The fact that his father has very occasionally contributed to the Guardian does not make this a case of nepotism necessarily. On top of which, most of the comments were not directed at the quality of the writing but attacking him for 'being a public schoolboy' living on 'Primrose Hill' and the fact that his father was a writer for the Guardian. Given that he is neither a public school boy nor lives on Primrose Hill and his father is not employed by the Guardian means that in fact most of the comments have little merit and do not statistically represent Guardian readers as a whole anyway. They read just like the ignorant rantings that you get on the web, and Wikipedia is not the place to continue that ranting. 221.133.101.80 (talk) 03:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought the dreadful quality of the actual text to be proof enough that he didn't get it through his merit. Seriously, though, what's your connection to this story? --Mister Six (talk) 10:39, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Citation from reliable source please that this is 'dreadful' quality and 'nepotism'. Given that the account is meant to reflect a typical 19 year old as it is written by a 19 year old, the writing was not bad. Perhaps in the top one percent of the 1000 or so posts on that page lets say. "Seriously, though, what's your connection to this story?" I read it. Seriously, though, what's yours given the desperation to have this non-cited, original researched, poor example on Wikipedia ? 221.133.101.80 (talk) 14:36, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

That would be original research. You need to cite that multiple reliable sources thought it was an example of nepotism. Finally, let's all assume good faith. Severo^TC 11:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

We do not accept "online comments" as a citation. See WP:SPS. --FOo (talk) 08:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Protected.

This article has been protected (not by me, but at my request) to stop the revert wars over the inclusion of the Gogarty material.

As far as I can tell, our policies (specifically WP:BLP) simply do not permit the inclusion of controversial allegations of wrongdoing by a living person unless we have reliable sources for those allegations. "Online comments", as mentioned in the disputed text, are not reliable sources.

It is not clear to me that the Gogarty allegations are notable enough, or a strong enough example, to be included here. However, even if they were, we would need reliable sources for them: specifically, some third-party reliable source (not "online comments" or blog posts) that actually makes the case for nepotism.

So there are two issues for discussion before this article is unprotected: First, is this allegation notable enough to be included, or is this recentism and scandal-mongering? Second, what are the reliable sources for this allegation? --FOo (talk) 19:51, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Sons!

Are we pussy-footing around here trying not to offend the papists? I was taught that "nepos" was a euphemism for "illegitimate son". — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 11:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

there was actual legitimate nephews too. 67.176.160.47 (talk) 01:58, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal

According to the article, Intellectual inbreeding, intellectual inbreeding includes a university hiring its own graduates as professors. It seems to fit within the description of nepotism in the nepotism article. Perhaps Intellectual inbreeding can be added to the nepotism article. Suntag (talk) 18:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

No, Nepotism is relatives. You should try to merge it to Cronyism as it's more applicable.-- $\sim$  ℗ papajohnin   ^(talk)(?)  12:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality

Many of these examples are political in nature. While an example or two are helpful, the majority of this article is examples instead of a neutral definition. Is this really appropriate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.6.134.116 (talk) 12:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Friends

Modern and current definition of Nepotism does include friends check the actual dictionary references at the bottom they all include friends. --Deathmolor (talk) 17:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I found a cite for this too, but it seems to get deleted quickly. Ah well Jwoodger (talk) 14:21, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

People keep removing the friends part of nepotism but completely disregard the wikipedia entry on it or any other dictionary for that matter. People need to start looking at that seriously and stop removing it. Deathmolor (talk) 01:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Removal of unsourced assertions

I have removed much of the content from the political section, because it consisted of lists of unsourced accusations that politician A had appointed relative B to a public position. The policy concerning what we can say about living people stipulates no contentious statements unless they are backed up with reliable sources. These had none.

NB I have left in material that is sourced. However, I have not checked any of these sources myself; it is quite possible that some of them are unsuitable for inclusion in the encylopedia. BrainyBabe (talk) 00:08, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Good call, even if they had not been living persons, all entries should still be directly referenced to reliable sources, per WP:V, WP:CITE, WP:RS, and a whole other alphabet soup of policies and guidelines. All such entries should be referenced, and any additions which are not referenced should be removed post haste. --Jayron32 01:13, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Two perfect examples of Neoptism

I am not a vandal. I was editing Wiki while the rest of you were still an itch in your daddy's pants. I chose not to be a member here because I don't want my email address given to spammers as has happened before. I am also not a Bush hater. The information I added is true to the facts, just look them up. Any rational and accountable being knows this to be true. Thank you.

In case my words are deleted just look at the page's history and you will know that Bush and Cheny are perfect examples of Nepotism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.154.38.14 (talk) 12:37, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Economy

Why does the article concentrate on politics, but not mention nepotism in economy or other power structures? The approach is not very scientific —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.121.5.72 (talk) 22:07, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Examples

I'm about to embark on a copyedit as requested at the top of the page. During the course of this, I propose to remove all the examples currently in section 1.2.1 - many of them are contentious, leading to counterexamples and edit wars, and they don't even improve the quality of the article. On the contrary, in fact, they could lead to the belief that any person being successful in the same field of work as a relative must be due to nepotism as opposed to, say, family traditions, advice from parents and so on. Brickie (talk) 11:08, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Something like this (still needs a bit of work on the copy): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Brickie/Sandbox/Nepotism Brickie (talk) 13:08, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Just to demonstrate my powers of future prediction: An example of nepotism is about to occur in the UK. This afternoon, either David or Ed Milliband will be elected the new labour leader. Afterwards, there will be a cabinet re-shuffle and whichever one wasn't elected leader will be given a high ranking job in the resulting cabinet. Just watch :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.213.28 (talk) 08:17, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

dynastic politics vs. nepotism

nepotism is when a friend or a relative is given the job/position. for example, a government official hires his relative. however, if a relative also has political success independent of their related official, then it is not. That is even though many of the Kennedys have had public office, only Bobby was given his position by a relative. 67.176.160.47 (talk) 02:04, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

CANADA

The only content under Canada is, "Many possible examples of nepotism around Children of the Prime Ministers of Canada." The link, "Children of the Prime Ministers of Canada," is merely a list of offspring. There is no nepotism (an unfair favoritism based on family relationship) suggested, much less proven.

One can go to a list of 1500s Popes and see clear evidence of nepotism. It's possible to show the same in the former USSR and in current DPRK. In such cases, relatives received high promotions and great privilege. This list however shows nothing of the kind. Justin Trudeau, for instance, may have been elected an MP because his father was fondly remembered by the electorate, but that is hardly nepotism.

Suggested for deletion unless somebody can show evidence or provide a clear link.

Hilde27 (talk) 13:18, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I think it's been long enough with no source, it should be deleted. Unless somebody can find a source for it.--66.183.46.232 (talk) 08:44, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

The Canadian example that springs to my mind is the column that Ben Mulroney wrote for Sun Media newspapers while his father sat on the board of directors of Quebecor. Lesbro (talk) 13:45, 6 July 2011 (UTC) Lesbro

I am not a vandal for pointing out poor writing styles which violate Wikipedia's standards

Using a movie to make defaming libelous suggestions about people is the cowards way out. I don't care who the tyrant in control of this page is (CharlieEchoTango has been abusing his authority with respect to my edits), all I care about is some decent honesty -- heck, I'm not even asking for a neutral, unbiased point of view! If you want to libel someone, be upfront about it. Tell a bold-faced lie. If it's true, it can stand, I don't care. But if the english is so bad that it's not even verifiable -- but still suggests a character attack, then that's indefensibly scurrilous.

I've tried to revise the suggestions that George W. Bush had nepotistic intentions towards his brother, by pointing out where the confusion was, but my edits got deleted by CharlieEchoTango. Frankly, I'd rather the article have an outright assertion that a criminal intent was present -- even if that assertion was false -- so long as it was a VERIFIABLE assertion. An unverifiable, confusing, irresponsible statement such as "In the Oliver Stone film W. based partially on facts, George H.W. Bush expresses a desire to see Jeb as president." has no place on wikipedia, and CharlieEchoTango should not be editing nor reverting articles if he does not know the difference between a verifiable and an unverifiable assertion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.72.192.237 (User talk:12.72.192.237) 07:15, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

The only reason I reverted your edits is because you added personal commentary to the actual page instead of the talk page, hence my warning on your user talk page. You can't just add opinions or denounce anything on the actual wikipedia entry, that is why there is a talk page for the entry. I have never edited this page before nor I am involved in the writing of it. I landed here because of the recent changes page and I reverted your vandalism. «CharlieEchoTango» 07:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

The personal commentary may have deserved deletion -- just as the unverifiable assertion does. However, only my commentary was deleted. And when I tried to edit the article to clarify the dangerous implication that George MAY have had a nepotistic intent towards his brother, as verified by a source "based partially on facts" (come on, what kind of source is "based partially on facts"?!!), you deleted my clarification -- but retained the unverifiable assertion that "In the Oliver Stone film W. based partially on facts, George H.W. Bush expresses a desire to see Jeb as president."talk 08:05, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Milliband

Can someone please explain how the section on the Milliband brothers is actually an example of nepotism? They were elected as MPs, not appointed, and I'm not aware that their father had any influence over their selection, given that he was dead several years before either were elected as MPs.

Any cited instances of nepotism on here have to be backed up with references (and factual ones at that) or this page is defmatory/libellous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.28.229.253 (talk) 20:47, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm in agreement with the above user - tagged as dubious to highlight this. Ilikeyourdorkiness (talk) 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

CHINA?

How come there isn't any examples of Chinese nepotism? China has the most complicated network of nepotism in the world called Qun Dai Guan Xi (Chinese: 裙带关系). You can find this Qun Dai Guan Xi everywhere in China, politics, economics, health, education, sports, entertainment... etc. 167.30.61.13 (talk) 08:42, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

The Map

Please notice that there's South Sudan now!--Kid 007 (talk) 09:40, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Examples (again)

I just removed all the examples that did not contain sources. Since many of these people are still alive there are clear WP:BLP issues involved. I suspect that many of the "sourced" examples do not point to a claim of nepotism from the source provided. We need to go through and vet the remaining examples to make sure they are support their claims. SQGibbon (talk) 00:24, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

The Philippines

Would anyone mind doing some research on Phillippine nepotism and add some examples? It seems quite rampant here. - Someone from the phils. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.202.137.19 (talk) 09:46, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Bush

What about george bush he was president and his dad was president. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.51.200.194 (talk) 15:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this person. Nepotism, by definition, has occurred in the United States if the statements of Michael Moore and others are to be believed. I know that wikipedia should never have the words "according to some smart people, this happened" written on them, but there should be more room for opinion that is backed by clear evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.74.138 (talk) 13:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with the above posters and I disagree with the inclusion of George W. Bush as an example of nepotism. George W. Bush became the President of the United States in a free election. No parental appointment was involved. If you have a problem with the election process, then you should place this comment into an article about election irregularities. This is not an example of nepotism as defined. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.52.242.173 (talk) 01:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I also agree with the previous comment, that George W. Bush's election was not an example of nepotism as defined. His father was no longer president. How could the claim that this was nepotism be justified? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.99.196.67 (talk) 03:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

While Bush Junior's election as president can not be considered nepotism (he is not related to a signifacnt proportion of the electorate), his father's influence on his early career could be. It depends on how you view his role in Bush Senior's election campaign. I do not know what role he played, and it would only be a good example of nepotism if he was under qualified for the position he held. His other forays into the world of business appear to he been funded largely by him self and non-familial investors. The fact he started out with money given to him by his parent by way of a trust fund, could be seen as being like nepotism, but isn't really an example of abuse of influence that characterises nepotism. The fact that his fathers friends were part of the group that bought a controlling shares in the Texas Rangers smells a bit like nepotism but also has look of a group with connections seizing a mutually beneficial opportunity. If it was on his fathers suggestion that he should buy into the Rangers franchise then things might have an extra twist, but that story is already full of speculation regarding the insider trading investigation resulting from the sale of Harken Energy energy shares Bush used to finance his move into the world of sport. His father's influence may have played a part in his political rise of power, with in the Republican party. I guess when you dad was the president it's hard not find people willing to help you out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.250.211 (talk) 23:36, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

It was not a "free" election for a number of reasons. -The machines used for voting are owned and operated by Diebold with zero accountability - the federal government has less control over the machines than the Nevada Gaming Commission has over gambling machines, and Cheney has ties to Diebold. -Jeb Bush and a number of others with ties to the Bush family led a concentrated campaign of fraud and disenfranchisement in Florida before and during the election. -Public perception of the outcome was unfairly disinformed by Bush's cousin at Fox News and their prediction that Bush won Florida spread to other networks and had a harmful effect on the operation of a fair election. -Gore ceded the race to Bush despite having won the election and did not draw out the recounts that later were shown to have proved that he would have won if he had exercised his rights. -Another point not brought up by the above poster is that HW Bush wasn't just the President, before he was President, he was the Director of the CIA, a position that arguably provides as much pull in clandestine ways that being ex-President did in public ways, a power which he has most certainly not wasted. The vigilant removal of anything related to the Bush family from this article is very clearly politically motivated and an obvious sign of corruption on the site. If this situation had happened elsewhere in the world, there would be no argument but people hate to know that the "home of the free and land of the brave" is actually as corrupt as any other nation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.245.208.85 (talk) 16:42, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

US Nepotism edit

George W. Bush and his brother Jeb Bush were duly elected in various elections. This is not nepotism. Their father did not give them these posts, they were elected in their own right. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.71.176 (talk) 02:51, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

A quick google search reveals almost a million results for "bush nepotism" including an article in the Economist. Surely there can be merit for inclusion at least that some consider their family nepotistic. Bush III also only won the 2000 election because of a campaign of disenfranchisement and fraud undertaken in part by Jeb Bush and friends of his at Fox News and in other positions in Florida. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.245.208.85 (talk) 16:17, 21 October 2012 (UTC)