Jump to content

Talk:Negima! Magister Negi Magi/Archive 3

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3

Original Research -- Overview

A brief glance at that section seems to have a lot of deductions on the author's part, which are unreferenced. Frankly I hope they do have references, however; there were good contributions in that section. -- Naruttebayo 02:14, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Translation Mistakes

Recommended including a scan image of a page with a corresponding English page - showing an example of a translation mistake. KyuuA4 05:17, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Chinese/ Malay version

Apparently, that's nothing more than a list of the Japanese names converted into Chinese/Malay. They should be brought over to the character pages instead - of a meshed paragraph list. KyuuA4 18:32, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I suggested. What I meant is there should be a note to state that the names were given as the readings in Chinese (specifically Mandarin), unlike the original Japanese version. The Malay version uses this instead of the original Japanese as it is translated into Chinese and then into Malay. Jeomaxxters 18:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Replaces list with links to the chracter pages - but left the Chinese translated names in comment. The names need to be transferred over to the character pages. KyuuA4 05:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Trivia Section

Below is the trivia section - removed from article and brought here. Having looked at many NFL based articles, they're filled with "trivia"; and it is an eyesore. Trivia text is brought here to serve as reference, perhaps for an extra section - such as comparison to Love Hina, or something like that. KyuuA4 19:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

NOTE - this material can be brought back into the main article if it can be added in the prose, or written as a new prose. KyuuA4 17:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I understand that this isn't in the article at this time, but should it be added that in Volume 7 (at least in the Del Ray version) that Eva says that the Negi VS Chachamaru battle will be Sunday at Noon, but it's actually Saturday/Sunday at midnight? 68.80.194.15 (talk) 20:28, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Trivia

Trademarks that were not changed, however, include Docomo, Toshiba, Microsoft Windows (it appeared numerous times in the manga, apparently they have used Ken's computer's windows to be inserted into the manga), Nikon, Segway, Adobe, and Kyocera.
  • In addition, a number of cameos of vehicles and characters from a variety of series can be seen during the Mahora festival. Mostly costumes, and mock-ups (most of them working) made by the many students at the academy. Most cameos were restricted to background elements in the crowds, or heavily modified with only a basic, but unmistakable resemblance. Modified vehicles included a De Lorean DMC-12 modified into a time machine, an MS-06 Zaku II, and an insect-like walker that resembles an AT-AT.
Cameo appearances include Terry Bogard (Fatal Fury), M. Bison (Street Fighter), Cody Travers (Final Fight), and Benimaru Nikaido (King of Fighters) (all the above appear before the beginning of the tournament). Another cameo appearance appears in the panel where Negi and Kotaro are pointed out as kids being no more than fourth or fifth graders. In the background, Seta and Naru Narusegawa from Love Hina can be found during the Mahora Fight Out preliminaries between Negi and Kotaro (Volume 10). References to characters in popular game or anime series are also present, and these include Cure Black and Cure White from Pretty Cure, Tifa Lockhart from Final Fantasy VII, Pleinair (Disgaea 2), EVA-01 (Evangelion),Ridley (Radiata Stories), Sakura Kasugano (Street Fighter), Athena Asamiya (King of Fighters), Mint Adnade (Tales of Phantasia), and Anita and Hisami (R.O.D the TV).

There are also cameo appearances of popular Toei tokusatsu heroes. Kamen Rider BLACK, Riderman and Super Sentai's J.A.K.Q.

  • On the bookshelves of Nagi Springfield's House, various things can be seen on the binders of the books such as the Negima! cast's seiyuu's names and Love Hina volumes going as high as volume 19.
  • On the contents page in the Del-Rey translation of Volume 2, "Fifteenth Period" is mistakenly written as "Fifteenth Hour", possibly getting the manga confused with another series D.Gray-Man
  • In volume 2, when 2-A is declared first place in the tests classification, a chibi version of Mitsune Konno (Kitsune) from Love Hina can be seen in a certain panel, throwing her tickets in the air, as she usually does when loses a bet.
  • In volume 3,(Sixteenth Period) in the mad rush to get out of the station, you can find the hot springs turtle, Tama -chan from Love Hina.
  • In volume 4, Negi and company visit the Kiyomizu-dera in Kyoto on their class field trip. Interestingly, Keitaro and Naru visit the same temple on their trip to Kyoto in volume 3 of Love Hina.
  • In volume 4, at the time when Konoka tells Asuna and Negi about her relationship with Setsuna, in one panel, a younger Setsuna is seen holding on to someone who looks like Motoko Aoyama and Tsuruko from Love Hina, which makes sense because Tsuruko passed down leadership of the Shinmeiryuu school to Motoko.
  • In volume 4, chapter 34 (the last chapter), Haitani Masayuki made a cameo appearance. Negi saves a cat from being hit by a van by flipping it in the air with a spell. Negi then looks at the condition of the crashed van's driver. The driver's appearance is consistent with Haitani's appearance during the Love Hina epilogue.
  • In volume 5, chapter 39, it's written Run Lola Run on Asuna's sweater, clearly a reference to Tom Tykwer's movie, and also a reference to the "running" they had been doing the whole chapter.
  • In the Del Rey translation of volume 7, the text on page 124 reads; Ministra Negi, Konoe Konoka... Miyazaki Nodoka... Kagurazaka Asuna... Sakurazaki Setsuna!! It should be written as Ministra Magi, Konoe Konoka... Miyazaki Nodoka... Kagurazaka Asuna... Sakurazaki Setsuna!!
  • In volume 7, Asuna's room number is stated as 304, the same room as Naru's from Love Hina.
  • In chapter 91 (volume 11) at the costume contest, several familiar outfits can be seen, including some of the Power Rangers as well as Tifa and Yuffie from Final Fantasy VII.
  • On the back of volume 8, Chizuru is seen with an apron that has Tama from Love Hina on the apron. Also, if you look on the apron, below where it says TA-MA you can see the words, "Love hina vol. 14." (The h does not appear to be capitalized on the apron.)
  • Love Hina volume 10 has a reference to a "television show Naru saw last year about the cute teacher and his troublesome students" when Keitaro, the protagonist of Love Hina, asks Naru, the other protagonist, why she became a teacher. It was 1999 when she saw the show, Negima! aired in 2005, and Volume 10 was published in 2000, three years before Negima! volume 1 was published.
  • During the time when Satomi hacked into Chachamaru's database in hopes of finding out something about her crush, the operating system shown is a Windows XP using Classic layout. Chisame uses a Mac (erroneously identified as Windows by Del Rey), which is presumably modeled after Akamatsu's own machine since the source code for his website is seen on screen.
  • Some of the objects in the manga were modeled (in Lightwave 3D) after real-life objects to maintain a standard of realism. That includes the school building, the Tatsumiya Shrine (which was based on another shrine), the bridge (in the battle of Evangeline and Negi), the World Tree, the red fountain pen Asuna held in her hand, and other objects. The bowling alley that appears in Vol. 7 is a re-use of background artwork from a similar scene in Love Hina.
  • Transportation is realistically modeled in the manga, which is unusual since manga like these usually overlook it in favor of objects that appear more often. Examples are the Toyota Hiace (late 4th generation) van in the Kyoto arc and Takahata's Dodge Viper (2003), which are the only road vehicles other than Ayaka's limousine and the trams that have appeared so far. The art of the vehicles are arguably better than some street-racing manga, which usually focus more on vehicle art.
  • There are several references to Ken Akamatsu’s first manga Ai ga Tomaranai also known as A.I. Love You. In Vol. 9 Period 75 Hakase Satomi went into a mad scientist ranting rationalizing how Chachamaru Karakuri could have fallen in love. In her dialogue she mentions a rumor of a brother-sister team from M.I.T. that created A.I. (Artificial Intelligence) with feelings. The siblings could be Hitoshi Kobe and Yayoi Kobe. The teacher known as Nitta, Director of Academy External Activities, character design appears to be an aged version of Hitoshi Kobe’s strict math teacher. The cyberspace Chisame, Ayaka and Makie entered in Period 152 when Chisame used her artifact is an ocean environment. In Period 154 data and programs in this cyberspace water environment are depicted as sea life. A reference to Ai ga Tomaranai/A.I. Love You cyberspace that is depicted as a water sea environment when the A.I. Namba sisters enter it.


  • There is a cameo appearance in the US DVD of "Mirrors". Shown as a poster in a part of the movie where Amy calls over her son Michael and his refection stays in place in the mirror, when the boy walks out you can see the poster of the anime, with I think Sayo Aisaka. Not sure though, I think she is the only sliver haired girl but I think I'm mistaken.


Love Hina is not "H" manga per se

Just a bit of nitpicking, but the sentence, "known for his best selling ecchi titles, specifically Love Hina." is misleading. Akamatsu may be known for his best-selling "H" titles (and hyphenate best-selling, _please_), but Love Hina, to my knowledge, is not one of them. I believe this would be better as "known for his best-selling hentai titles and the pseudo-harem comedy series Love Hina." Believe me, if you're looking for hentai involving Love Hina characters, it's not to be found in the series itself... althought there are some great dōjinshi ^_^

Hentai and Ecchi are not the same thing.. Shiroi Hane 00:04, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Believe me, they are pretty much the same thing. ecchi is the Japanese pronouciation of H and H is short form of Hentai. MythSearcher 01:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Compare the articles for Hentai and Ecchi, in particular "The term Ecchi is applied to anime or manga that has vague sexual content (such as skimpy clothing, partial or full nudity), but does not show sexual intercourse." Shiroi Hane 01:37, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Than those articles need to be corrected. "The term Ecchi is applied in anime or manga that has vague sexual content (such as skimpy clothing, partial or full nudity), but does not show sexual intercourse." In anime and manga, characters(mainly girls) use the word H to imply such lesser thoughts of another character. However, in real life, Japanese people uses H as a prefix to indicate Hentai titles. There is no such word as ecchi in Japan, only H and Hentai. and H is the short form of Hentai without altering it's meaning. MythSearcher 01:49, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't matter whether the word 'ecchi' exists in Japan since this is the English wikipedia, and, while it may not be in the Oxford dictionary, ecchi surely has a much validity in English anime&manga terminology as Otaku does. Shiroi Hane 02:06, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, this is a big problem since the meaning of a word is widely misunderstood and then mistakenly used. I have changed the article a little bit to make it more neutral with the words. MythSearcher 03:13, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
ecchi comes from hentai, but they are two different words. hentai is much stronger. ecchi simply refers to an unbecoming interest in sexual matters. 90% of the time it is written in phonetic katakana as エッチ, not as Ｈ. hentai has a meaning closer to "pervert". There is something scary about hentai, but nothing particularly threatening about ecchi. Thus the division in the English usage. Scribelrus 22:28, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
If it is mistaken, then don't use it. It causes confusion when people with more Japanese cultural base read it. The comment is not necessary in the article either. MythSearcher 02:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
In short, ecchi<hentai, even though ecchi evolved from the word hentai, so to speak, as the letter H. Ecchi for the most part is usually used to refer to things with sexual undertones, but nothing blatantly sex. Hentai on the otherhand, is basically pornography, to some degree. Love Hina is definitely not H material, but it definitely qualifies as an ecchi manga/anime.Goldy496 21:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Negima!: Magister Negi Magi can be classified as a harem or ecchi comedy, but is by no means a hentai. The basic definition of hentai is when the characters participate in blatent sex acts, while ecchi just creates an awkward feeling around the characters and does not cross the line of sexual humor TallHomunculus (talk) 01:17, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

More pages?

How about more pages? In my opinion the mainpage of Negima is too big. I Suggest:

Feel free to update the list. Gameslinder 21:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I support. I also think it is better that way. MythSearcher 02:39, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure about seperate article for the anime, but Negima (anime) would be a better title. Shiroi Hane 04:08, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
That would be indeed a better name. We could also reactivate the Talk:Negima/Timeline page in a Timeline_of_negima or something. I came up with the idea for the anime page for the information that's specific about the anime, such as List of Episodes, Opening/Ending Songs, Note on Color Changes, Anime Revisions. It's also possible to sepparate the manga too in a Negima(manga) but i think that's an overkill, because in fact the manga is what negima's all about. Gameslinder 07:18, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

The anime is significantly dfferent in plot from the manga, and it would be nice to note how. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 169.233.26.169 (talk • contribs) .

I have created pages like List of Items and Artifacts in Negima and Magic in Negima. The size of the article is finally less than 32kb. Currently it is unnecessary to create the page Negima(Anime). MythSearcher 03:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure why the character pages were divided into a seperate lot, but it's inefficient and more sloppy than keeping everything on one page (id est, if I were looking for a character with CTRL+F, I would likely have to sort through at least two articles rather than one). I propose combining the three sections back together, with only a header indicating the class number distinctions...heck, not even that is needed, as all the characters have their class numbers on their biographies. Terek 09:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

New anime episodes confirmed

On a foldout page in Weekly Shônen Magazine issue 13 (released March 1), Kôdansha officially announced two new anime based om Mahou Sensei Negima! will be produced. Production will be moved from Xebec to Shaft and will feature the creative talents of Akiyuki Shinbo (director) and Kazuhiro Ota (character designer), the team that produced Pani Poni Dash! Spring Edition, one of the new Negima anime will be screened at a Negima event held by Kôdansha and King Records at Tokyo Kôseinenkin Kaikan on April 23rd. A discussion featuring voice actresses from Negima will also be a part of the event. The application coupon to attend the Negima event is included in Weekly Shônen Magazine.

Source: Anime news network.

Picture 1. Picture 2.

Let's now try to not panic because of the new art style (the nose!) Gameslinder 00:38, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

character couplings

It is unreferenced and is pure speculation (which means no reference could be found and will never have reference until the story ends.) Wiki's policy is against this kind of article and we should not let it be there just because some fans like their flavourite characters coupled. I will remove this section right away and if anyone have a legitimate reason of adding it back discuss it here. Wiki is an encyclopedia, not a fan page. MythSearcher 04:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

do u hav any good info on Negima the Game? ES Kotaro 02:39, 26 June 2006 (HA

HA HA HA HA, Hey Kotaro, that question of yours is never gonna get answered is it? HA HA HA HA HA!!

No. KatariG4 1 June 2006

United Kingdom publisher

It appears that the mangas will be published, starting on the 3rd of August, by Arrow Books. Arrow Books appears to be linked to the same parent company as Del Ray is, so I wouldn't be surprised if the translations are exactly the same. So far, I only have sources from shops such as play.com, WHSmith and one other that I can't remember, but they all say the same thing. [1] I'm trying to find a more official source.

If someone wants to add this information to the main article, please do so. Bennity 17:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Found some more information: http://forums.booktrade.info/showthread.php?t=540 Seems they will be released under "Tanoshimi", not Arrow Books. Bennity 22:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

In the article, it mentions that the manga in the US was shrink-wrapped, in the UK it isn't. Does that mean that we have an edited version? Peter shillito 18:17, 27 October 2006 (GMT+1)

Formatting and Speculation

Tsk, tsk. This article has become quite the mess since I was last here, ahh, circa January 2006. I'm not sure what everyone has been fiddling with, but I would propose reverting back to the one-article with condensed biography layout that was here back then. What I see now are three divided articles with poor markup alignment, excessive biographies and too much speculation. Massive clean-up is demanded (not even suggested), though I won't do anything without authorization by consensus first.

Furthermore, reduce the speculation, considerably. Yes, "fans" may be short for "fanatics", but influencing the opinions of other people is immoral because they internalize what they read, only to get disappointed with what the author actually writes. This is especially true on Wikipedia, where opinions are frequently veiled as "factual", as opposed to a forum with overtly identified speakers (we know these denotions as "screen-names"). The typical heuristic is to only "speculate" on something that seems obvious (Chao-Negi relationship, I mean, DUH) and simply "state" what has happened in the manga and let the reader formulate his/her own views on the matter. Suggestivity is not recommended, either; Wikimedia strives toward an objective of impartiality in presenting information. Terek 09:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd say separating is a good thing, the only problem is the long character description with no one wanting to actually going through them to edit out the speculation part and IP users and vandalists keep coming back to add stuff into it. Most of the speculation has been deleted already (e.g. the character coupling section and the character comparisons without references) and the article size reduced. I have actually tried to minimize the article size of the original copy, but finding it impossible to fit everything within 32kb (or 26kb whatever is the wiki suggested size) even if we only keep three lines of description for every character. If you are willing to do anything to edit separate pages, please do it. However, if you want to merge everything back to one page, try to mix everything in one article and look at the size first. I tried to keep everything I write to be what is shown on screen and nothing is speculated and that is what I can do most. MythSearcher 10:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
The seperation of an article sharing the same content is superfluous; it only serves to clutter up Wikipedia by adding multiple pages, which are inconvenient for the average reader. As such, the only prospect for rationale for those articles would be "length" reduction, which I now see is because few are willing to spend the time to edit the biographies. I'll do something for this format in June 2006, after I finish polishing/fixing up Fate/stay night. No definite promises yet, though.
The speculation I was citing are the usually related to love/sexual relationships between Negi and his students, which is utterly unsupported (mutually) because Negi is just a child. As such, instances should be simply stated without inferences to allow the reader to formulate his/her own opinions of the matetter (see my previous entry). After looking at the articles a bit more carefully, it seems as if the entire Negima series is being condensed into the character biographies; this shouldn't be the case. Wikipedia is not an encyclopedia, not an answer book; what is the purpose of buying the original volumes if all the information can be found in one place? Ergo, details of what has happened should be truncated...ahh, heck, I'll tear apart Setsuna's biography as an example. Terek 19:13, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I had already clear out the entirely biased character coupling section a month or two ago. No doubt work needed to be done, but time is needed. However, wikipedia is an encyclopedia. probably you made a typo up there :)
I hardly have the time to dig into every biography of those characters and can bearly have time to revert the vandals these days. Hope some one else can have more free time to do so. Also, as I have stated above, even if we cut the length of the character section to only 3 lines for each character, the length is still too long to be fit back into this main Negima article. The most we can do is probably fit them back into one character page instead of 3. MythSearcher 02:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia, despite the Wikimedia Foundation's claims, is not an encyclopedia; it's a public debating forum that hosts dubious information of questionable validity. I can trust an encyclopedia is written and verified by experts; I cannot do the same for Wikipedia. As such, it is up to the editors to clean things out and gain back the confidence of casual readers.
In regard to the editing effort, so long as my edits are not reverted with fuss, I'll prune/rewrite the whole lot of biographies in June, provided I finish Fate/stay night and pass my college exams. Once finished, I'll remerge everything back into a manageable one article character page. Terek 05:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I had already worked through the entire character list more than one, before the article was split. Unfortunately I already have a full time job and that one pays more... Shiroi Hane 18:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

Some real life trademarks were changed ... Somy (Sony) ... Trademarks that were not changed, however, include Sony ???

I suppose it's possible it was used both ways, and I have not seen every episode. But normally if legal is involved it'll be one or the other.

I vaguely remember seeing both spellings in the manga. Perhaps I'll look it up. Shinobu 15:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I am sure it says "Somy" at least once , but I can't recall seing "Sony" yet, then again I have not seen or read the entire thing yet, im about 3/4th into it. Hope that helps Prede 04:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Cartoon/Manga

No means to be rude since I too was sorta wondering why I was pulled into talking about stuff that has nothing to do with Negima, however I also notice that no one even paid attention to his main question "Does anyone know any information on the Negima games?". Besides, wanting to know why Kotaro wasn't in the anime or what people think about that IS a worthy topic. Now once again, where the hell is Kotaro in the anime?!!! He's like Negi's only rival! Every main character has a rival or an evil match(look-a-like) or both! T_T Eh heh heh heh. Axidous 22, July 2006

He's not in there because of trouble changing directors, resulting in only 2 episodes for the Kyoto arc (the new director wanted to use the last X episodes for an actual ending). They had to cut some stuff out, and since there wouldn't be time for his reintroduction later in the Wilhelm arc, he could be omitted without much damage overall to the story. Biolizard 23:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay but what about when they first started making the cartoon? This is just my opinion ut the characters look a little ugly in the anime. Biolizard? From Sonic? Axidous 10, August 2006

Does anyone know if Negima will go past 19 Volumes for Del Rey Manga? Or do they plan to drop the franchise when Volume 19 comes out? TallHomunculus (talk) 01:20, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Trivials

I was wondering in the manga, that the mangaka added some twist like when negi (adult version) was in a date with asuna, the store said "Starbooks coffee" *Starbucks?* Also in going back when koutaro was looking for negi (the memory loss problem), natsumi was wearing a shirt saying "Mardock Scramble" which seems to be a novel/anime thats going to be airing?

Just those two, correct me if i'm wrong, anyway else i think i want to contribute a little in this article of negima :) --David Gonzalez 04:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Ako also wore a shirt with the title The Place Promised in Our Early Days, the name of an anime movie. There's really no point to add each of these little things to the Trivia section. Biolizard 23:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

move to "Negima!"?

To help differentiate between this and it's spin-off Negima!?, does anyone else think this page be moved to "Negima!"? Both Del Rey and Funimation use it for their releases of the series. Biolizard 00:14, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

That would actually differentiate them less, since then there would only be a question mark between them. Shiroi Hane 01:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
The way I see it is that keeping the article as "Negima" makes it seem like a general article for both series, or could be for either. Bothering to add the "!" would make it cleaer for which it is for. Biolizard 02:31, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Viewers may not understand the small difference. Axidous 19, August 2006

But real fans will totally understand the huge difference. Anonymous 1, September 2006

I meant when staring off the search. Especially for those who just barely discover Wikipedia, they may search "Negima!?, Negima?, Negima!, Negima, negima!?, negima?, negima!, or negima". They don't know what they HAVE to type in order to see a certain thing until they find ONE, read all about that part of the subject, and then go to search it. No offence to anyone but a real fan may have problems. If you are a major fan of omething you are weak to it as if it had power over you. You should keep anyone and everyone from controling you in your life. Not that a cartoon can really do anything but I ill not go crazy enough to even say I admire something or love someone. Call me dark spirited but I'm really equality in the favor of all. But sorry cause this bottom half was completely off topic AND had nothing to do with the article. Axidous 4 Sept 2006

Gainax??

In the Gainax artcile it was(or is not sure) listed that Gianax produced/made this anime, but here that is not listed anywhere. What is true? did Gainax make this or not? If they made this please put that here( I didn't edit it becuase I am unsure), but I don't think that Gainax made this in anyway . This is something that should be brought to all of your attentions.

Somewhere along the line, it was mistranslated that Gainax was working on the second series. It's actually a company called GANSIS. 72.64.58.182 01:40, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh thank you very much. I was unsure on that. I just wannted to bring this to everyone's attention.

Please go to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/References to Dragonball Z in Negima. The questioned article is totally POV, unreferenced and have no verifiable source(similar pictures from the manga itself is not a verifiable source since human beings all have similar pose when doing similar actions.) MythSearcher 10:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Wrong use of template?

EnglishTitle=Amicus certus in re incerta cernitur
JapaneseTitle=A Friend in Need Is a Friend Indeed

Doesn't this strike anyone as odd? Shinobu 16:14, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Since it's something you'll only see in edit view I fail to see a problem. If you want to clone a specific Negima episode list template with LatinTitle and EnglishTitle I won't stop you, but it seems a little pointless when the end result looks the same. Shiroi Hane 22:43, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Pactio Cards

Has anyone else noticed how reminiscent of Mucha the pactio cards are? For instance, compare Evangeline's card to Mucha's Crescent Lady (especially round the hair) - the thick pen around the outline, and then the thinner one on all the inside detailing. Does anyone think that they were inspired by Mucha's paintings (in the same way that the pictures at the front of the Sailor Moon Scout Guides are), or is it just me reading too much in? Well Drawn Charlie 17:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

It does not concern the article at all. No official information stated about this and due to wiki's policy, no speculation should be used in the articles. Therefore, looking alike does not need to be written into the article. MythSearcher 06:56, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
No, you're right. Sorry. Well Drawn Charlie 10:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

My edits

Just so nobody freaks out or anything, I moved all of the trivia to http://www.anime-wiki.org/index.php/Mahou_Sensei_Negima! if you, for some reason, still feel that it's needed information. However, all of that trivia was just noting cameos and such, which we don't need. For further reading, see WP:TRIVIA. I also removed a lot of sections that merely said "Main article at ..." These are linked to in the template box, and thus don't need extra space in the article unless a paragraph can be written to go along with it. --SeizureDog 00:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah, and the episodes are now at List of Negima!: Magister Negi Magi episodes List of Negima episodes.--SeizureDog 00:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Response

Freaks out: You do realize the effort some persons did for the trivia section don't you? The trivias are there to better inform the reader as to the referenced sources the author took for his work.--ReddyRedWolf

Which is why I didn't just outright delete it. And those aren't "referenced sources" the author used, they're just homages. Trivial, if somewhat interesting, allusions to popular culture. Most of them refer to things that only happened in one panel. Now if there was some kind of major reference the series kept up, such as every character being named after a celestial object, then that could be worked into its own little section. What was listed however, isn't notable. --SeizureDog 14:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


Not notable? The trivia is there to better inform the reader on the material. Not everyone can identify so and so. It is pertinent information. It also contains information on the characters. Don't go editing out entire sections ReddyRedWolf

The reader's understanding of Negima! is completely unaffected by the fact that he didn't know that Mitsune Konno appears in the background of one panel. This sort of thing is completely non-notable and I don't even see why I have to agree about it. "Trivia" itself means "unimportant matters" (m-w.com), and in terms of the series as a whole, this is about as unimportant as you can get.--SeizureDog 16:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd say if it is trivia about somebody or some fictional character appearing in another series, it is better to include it in that person(or character) page instead of the series page? Sounds more like that person having an impact on other series, not the other way around. MythSearchertalk 16:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
In the very least, these "trivia" bits need to be lumped together. All the cameos should be in one subsection, all the Love Hina references in another. Kyaa the Catlord 18:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Critical Response

What on earth is that? it is just some critics POV, not encyclopedic and totally original research of that person. Especially this is the style of the mangaka since day one, even in Love Hina and series before that like AI. When did this become a major issue? Also, a web site review is totally not reputable and thus should not be used as a source. I will be deleting that section now. MythSearchertalk 19:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me but The Comics Journal is a published magazine and has about the most reputable critical opinion you're going to find. Wikipedia is not supposed to contain personal opinions, but opinions by established critics is something we are supposed to have. Just because it is negative is no reason to delete it. I shall be restoring it. If you still wish to fight me on this, we should debate in on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Anime_and_manga for other members' opinions.--SeizureDog 20:02, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I have no idea it is published. Now as the source is given, then I guess it could stay. However, I must say that critic obviously have no knowledge on what style Ken Akamatsu draws in, and is purely POV on that topic without enough research. MythSearchertalk 09:18, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Well duh it's POV. That's what critics do, give their POV. And if he said nothing about the drawings being different. He was talking about how the story was presented. Love Hina = 18ish guy being surroung by cute girls; Negima! = 10-year-old being surrounded by cute girls. His arguement was that having the central character be prepubesenct underminded all of Akamatsu's good points. Read more carefully. --SeizureDog 10:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
The problem is, the manga is targeted to the same audience, most don't care what the target is, the nudity is shown to attract audience, not the main character, and nudity is one of Akamatsu style from day one. (not counting his Doujin H-manga) I am talking about his style of story, having more fan service than necessary style, not his drawing ability. MythSearchertalk 10:35, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
In any case, you should probably work on finding a positive review to balance the section out. As much as I agree with the viewpoints made, I don't like the only opinion in the article being negative.--SeizureDog 12:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Personally I don't care whether it was published or not. Just using one person's view in a critical response section is just POV. I'm not trying to be a fanboy here, but if you're going to bash a series without repersentation of the other side, at least cite multiple sources while doing so.BrendantheJedi 23:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I just said that. Find a credible review.--SeizureDog 02:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
On second thought, I think you're right. The Critsism section needs to stay. There seems to be an edit war going on here. Still, instead of silencing the opinion of the lone hater, could someone use Lexis-Nexis or something, and find a positive review of the Negima manga? I know they exist, but this is matter of lazyness/lack of resources. BrendantheJedi 04:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Objectivity is needed in the article not subjectivity. This is not a book review ReddyRedWolf

Let's try to come together here.

I'm here from Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga by request from SeizureDog for mediation. This is one of the steps in the dispute resolution process. Hopefully we can resolve this before this matter would need to be taken up by the Arbitration Committee.

First off, let's remain civil. Nothing here is intended as a personal attack on each other, or the subject involved.

With that, let's look at the article in question. First off, Wikipedia:Manual of Style explicitly states in Wikipedia:Avoid trivia sections in articles that "Lists of facts, as found in trivia sections, are better presented within the context of the text rather than in a section of unrelated items." This is a Wikipedia guideline. I understand that there has been a lot of work done on this section, and as such, the information should be included in the rest of the article so that the work is not lost.

Secondly, there is no need to edit out profanity in the article. Wikipedia policy states that Wikipedia is not censored. In this case, the F-Word is taken from a direct quote, and should remain.

Third, regarding the NPOV complaints regarding the Comics Review article, it does not violate the policy to include sources from a POV standpoint, as long as the article itself remains NPOV. It can be argued that by not including negative information it imbalances the article the other direction. Many articles include a "Criticism" section that addresses the opposing POV without giving the POV undue weight. The answer to the negative article is therefore a positive article. If a positive article cannot be found, then maybe the article is not notable enough to warrant Wikipedia having an article under current Wikipedia:Notability guidelines.

Just some things to consider, hopefully we all can get along? --RoninBKETC 23:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Critisism

To avoid Arbitration, I think instead of starting an edit war, how about we try and work this out. Deciding that Negima does need an objective look, I agree with Seizure Dog, at least partially. So how ever-else cares about this article, I suggest you please help look for a positive view of Negima! BrendantheJedi 04:58, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Though I do have one suggestion. Most of the reviews I've been seeing so far in my search have are usually on the early end of the series; usually during the first volumes of the manga, and the entirety of the first Negima Anime. I suggest looking elsewhere, when the plot has soldified. BrendantheJedi 05:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Negi

Negi goes to Negi, could someone create a disamb. page.

No it doesn't, it goes to Welsh Onion. BrianGo28 (talk) 01:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, a disambiguous page would not be necessary, as Negi does mean "Welsh onion" in Japanese, as it is a transliteration. --Animeronin (talk) 13:43, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Cheek pull?

Does anyone know why Asuna & Eva kepps pulling in Negis cheeks (at least they do it in the anime)? Has it something to do with the fact that he's a kid?88.206.159.226 09:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Chinese/Malay version

Concerning this section under the Manga heading in the main article, shouldn't it be moved to the character pages themselves rather than on the front page of the article? To be fair to the one who added that, though, we can note that the names were translated directly from the Chinese characters (a.k.a. kanji in Japanese) that make up the character's names into Mandarin using Hanyu Pinyin. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jeomaxxters (talk • contribs) 16:19, 19 March 2007 (UTC).


Live Action Series

Can someone confirm if and when this will be made?

Cast list for the students: http://www.starchild.co.jp/special/negima-drama/profile.html

I just added the link to the main website as a Reference as there is already a link to the main Negima webpage which would hold a link to the website anyway. Would it be correct to have done that? If not, please feel free to edit it and sorry for any inconvenience. Reference is [5] under Live Action. Sirsmarto 11:04, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Negima Opening/Ending themes

I found out that that about every 5 eps the Opening and Ending theme would change voice actors who sung it, there is 7 different versions of the Opening theme all sung by the voice actors of the class. 21:01, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Translation Mistakes Section

Possible Trivia section. Otherwise, request verification for article re-incorporation. KyuuA4 06:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Translation Mistakes

There are a number of inconsistencies found in the Del Rey translation of Negima!. While Del Rey makes a strong attempt at communicating, as fully as possible, the cultural and lingual nuances of the manga – most notably in the inclusion and explanation of the various honorifics – the translation, and the explanatory notes in the back of each volume periodically demonstrate misunderstandings and misinterpretations, as shown in the sections below.

Part of this can be attributed to Del Rey's adaptation process, where a translated script is adapted into colloquial English by a different author. The first four volumes of Negima! were adapted by Peter David and his wife Kathleen; later volumes were adapted by Trish Ledoux.

Thousand Master/Southern Master
In the first volume, the Del Rey translation refers to the Thousand Master as the Thousand Master, and mention that it is said he knows a thousand spells. In the third volume, they refer to a "Southern Master", who supposedly knew a thousand spells. Negi also identifies the "Southern Master" as his father. Del Rey has verified that they are in fact the same person, and it was improperly translated in volumes 3 and 4, since in Katakana, "Thousand" (サウザンド) and "Southern" (サザン) looked about the same to the translator. The translator in question has been replaced, and subsequent editions of volumes 3 and 4 have this correction.
Mistranslated Names
In the first two volumes of the Del Rey translation, Chachamaru's surname is given as "Rakuso". However, in Volume 3, her surname is listed as "Karakuri". This actually stems from the fact that with the kanji that make up her name, the most common pronunciation of each is as raku and sō. This is common, as many kanji have multiple ways of pronouncing them. Making use of some of the audio CDs released in Japan, the proper pronunciation of Chachamaru's surname is "Karakuri".
Satomi's surname has been changed from Del Rey's "Nakase" to "Hakase" in the Del Rey translations. The proper spelling is Hakase, and the first character can never be pronounced as na, so the most likely conclusion is a simple typo: It is entirely possible that the editors of the first volume didn't notice that it was an N in the first volume.
Misa Kakizaki is actually listed as Kakizaki Misa. Knowing that in Japan, the surname does come first in speaking and in lists, this could be nothing to worry about. However, in several areas (volume 1/chapter 3 and some time in volume 4 on one of the chapter pages) Kakizaki's name is listed as Misa Kakizaki. It is unknown exactly why they have such different placements, but going by the Japanese version, Kakizaki is the surname, with Misa as the given name. In Volume 4, Misora Kasuga is listed as Kasuga Misora in the class register and on one of the pages, Chao Lingshen is listed as Shen Rin.
In the initial printing of volume 5, during chapter 43, the "Character Popularity Poll," and the "Botched Card" omake section, Ayaka's surname is mistakenly listed as "Hiroyuki," rather than the correct name, "Yukihiro." Also in the "Character Popularity Poll," Chizuru is listed as "Chitsuru," Sakurako's surname is listed as "Shina," Sayo's surname is listed as "Azaka," and Natsumi's surname is listed as "Muragami."
Mistranslated Latin
The second volume of Del Rey's translation of Negima! states that the Latin subtitle "Magister Negi Magi" means "Wizard Negi-Sensei." It also defines the "Magi" as "magical." However, "Magi" is a form of the Latin word "magus", "magician" or "mage", and does not grammatically agree with "Negi" or "Magister" if it is used as an adjective.[1]
The original Japanese version of the second manga volume defines "Magister" as 先生 (sensei "teacher" or "master"), and "Magi" as 魔法使いの (mahōtsukai-no- "of the mage"). It also defines "Magister Magi" as 魔法使いの達人 (mahōtsukai-no-tatsujin "Master of the Mage" or "Mage Master"). Those translations are acceptable. "Magister Negi Magi" can mean "Mage Master Negi" (if "Magi" is interpreted as a genitive of quality with no adjective). This error is most likely due to a misunderstanding of the difference between linguistic idioms between Latin and Japanese. While Latin cases are, in many cases, parallel to Japanese particles, the translator had overlooked the fact that the genitive used as an appositive, which is acceptable and in fact required in Japanese, does not apply to Latin. Incidentally, Negi's name is Latinized as "Negius" (Latin genitive, singular form: "Negii"), so "Magister Negius Magi" would have been a more consistent Latin title.
For the most part, the Latin phrases used in Negima! are meaningful and correct. One notable exception is the "MACINATRIX" on Satomi's "Charta Ministralis" or "Attendant Card."; that should be "MACHINATRIX", "mechanic". However, the interpretations of the Latin phrases in the Del Rey translation are mostly inaccurate. For instance, the second volume claims that "Magister Magi" means "magical people," but "magical people" is "homines magi" in Latin. One possible reason for the many inaccuracies is that the translators did not actually translate the Latin words directly, but rather they translated the Japanese translations of the Latin translations. If that is the case, then that can be a problem with Latin words such as "adeat," which is translated into Japanese as kitare (English: "come" used as an imperative form). But "Adeat" is a subjunctive form, not an imperative form, of the Latin verb "adire", "to approach," "to draw near", so it can be translated as "Let him/her/it approach," but not simply "Approach."
Nita/Nitsuta/Nitta
In the Del Rey translation of the Negima! manga, Nitta-sensei's name was translated erroneous numerous times. Nita and Nitsuta were the two errors made before the actual name, Nitta, was discovered. The reasoning requires some knowledge of the Japanese language. Nitsuta (につた) and Nitta (にった) look very similar in hiragana because the only difference is the size of the tsu character. A smaller tsu character indicates doubles consonants, while a regular-sized tsu indicates "tsu".

References

  1. ^ Bennett, Charles E., Latin Grammar (Allyn and Bacon, 1895).
    For more information, please see Latin grammar. In this article and its subarticles may be found further references.

Manga section, Japanese release

Ironically, there is no information regarding the manga released in Japan. KyuuA4 06:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

  • I actually had started thinking and creating a page for the manga but stopped since I didn't want to use my translations for the chapter titles and such. (and how much time it probably would take, particularly while I'm currently trying to update the manga page for Bo-bobo. Could start something if its really needed. -StrangerAtaru 15:56, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Beef Rolls

Was I the only one who was redirected from "Negima" to this page? I was looking for Japanese beef rolls. If anyone knows where I can find those, let me know. Thanks!RSido 00:29, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Live Action Series

I believe this is being shown currently and has not been cancelled should the information be changed to match this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silent Elf (talk • contribs) 00:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Your belief is correct. There isn't any other reliable source to back it up. There are two telling signs to back up the fact the info was vandalism. 1.) the website of tv tokyo is not www.tvtokyocorp.com. Instead, it's http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/. 2.) The user responsible for this info appearing, 12.168.112.176, has constantly been reprimanded for vandalism. So, yes, the reports of the show's death are exagerrated. Crboyer 04:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC) 

==Negima Neo==

It a nember of chapter about Negi before he became a teather I dont know how many chapter there are though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.158.208.2 (talk) 08:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

The term "hacking" used in Negima!

Has anyone felt that the mangaka/translators/anyone involved with Negima! has totally undermined the word HACKING?? According to the manga, Chiu is a web hacker...but her forte seems to be only "Photoshop`ing her pics and posting it in her blog" or maybe "reading/spamming in a chat room". If that is considered hacking...then we got e-criminals in every cyber cafè and photo studio. The most plausible event of "hacking" might be the part where she restores some energy field or something over the campus during the Mars vs Mages battle...but still the way she does it...is so spastic. The mangaka TRIES to throw in some terms (which are like ancient artifacts in the hacking world atm) along with sharks and Mahou-Shoujo....I dont know about what he is thinking, but hacking and Magic-girls just mix as good as oil and water and look all the more horrible on paper. Ignorance of such a level is just so unbelievable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wasted(again) (talk • contribs) 06:04, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Well... she actually does hack the website connection rank and pushes her site up to the top(at least that is what I remember) after she gets her artifact. And you don't nessasarily have to constantly hack sites to be a hacker, you know. It probably means she has the ability to hack. βriαn Go XXVIII (talk) 08:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I think that Chisame/Chiu actually does hack websites in order to get good idol ratings. And the term "hacker" doesn't neccessarily mean someone who breaks into other computers or defaces websites, it could be someone with a high level of computer ability, like in programming or modding. The term has also been especially diluted with the advent of "l33t"-speak, where one may find even a guy simply good at gaming calling himself a "l33t h4xx0r". DY (talk) 00:14, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Ken's pretty tech-savvy himself, I'm sure he wouldn't have used it without reason. Chisame's pactio power also allows her to hack computers directly, at a speed comparable to Chachamaru. As mentioned above, hacking does not imply that the person is a criminal,

there are white hat and black hat hackers, as well as the oft-derided "l33t" game hackers who use programs made by others. the_one092001 (talk) 12:59, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention that even though her pactio allows her to hack directly, its clear she was already aware of how to hack before obtaining it. 160.36.232.150 (talk) 22:04, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

OAV Preorders

In the article, it says that the counter in the official website is the number of orders of all three OVAs. However, in the Japanese wikipedia website, Japanese blogs, and even the ALA ALBA website, I believe it says that the counter is for the first OVA (putting the final number at 82,581 preorders). My Japanese is limited, so I wanted to make sure that this was true and what was written in the English article was wrong. KamikazeKoga (talk) 02:18, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

When where and how?

Um when does Negima air? Does it air in Canada? If so where do you think it airs? How can we watch it?

signed: Miss i like to mess things up for yall — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.137.122.111 (talk) 19:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Chapter list

Hello, I just started a chapter list for Negima! in my userspace. However, currently I don't have the time or the access to all the volumes necessary to complete it. Also, I need some big help identifying cover characters - this has never been my strong point, and even though Akamatsu-sensei certainly does a good job of creating unique characters, there's just too many of them for me to keep straight after only reading two volumes. In addition, the list currently only covers volume 2, since that's all that I have at the moment (but I'll continue adding information as I request more volumes at my library ^_^ ). In any case, expand the list as you see fit (but no stupid stuff, I'll quickly revert it), and I'll move it to the mainspace when it's ready. And please don't link to it from articles before it gets moved, that's a big no-no. Thanks! —Dinoguy1000 22:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I've moved the chapter list to List of Negima!: Magister Negi Magi chapters, and created redirects from a number of alternate titles; however, I don't have access to many of the volumes, so I can't complete the lists of chapters, and a number of the cover characters need to be double-checked or (past volume 9) added. 「ダイノガイ千？！」(Dinoguy1000) 07:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Notability of character pages.

It seems that the pages for main characters have been tagged as having questionable notability. I say that since Negima is a popular, long-running shounen manga, its primary characters deserve their own pages just as much as a character from any other popular manga, comic, or animated series. If Naruto, Ichigo, and Goku get their own pages, then why not Negi, Asuna, and so forth? Perhaps they do need to be re-written and/or have more sources added, but I don't think they should be removed. — JGoodman (talk) 02:05, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Popularity does not equal notability. Each article must demonstrate independent notability from the series through nontrivial coverage in multiple reliable third-party sources. It wouldn't surprise me if these sources were out there for Negima's main characters; it's just a matter of someone going out and finding them. If you'd like some help finding sources, you can always ask at the animanga project talk page. ;) ···「ダイノガイ千？！」? Talk to Dinoguy1000 10:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I see. Well, I don't have time to look for sources myself, but I'll leave a message over at that page and see if someone else is up to the task. — JGoodman (talk) 05:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

What happened to the Pactio article?

Why did you people delete it? Blueknightex (talk) 06:05, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

It was merged/redirected here because it was a huge mess of unreferenced original research and beyond-trivial detail. 「ダイノガイ千？！」? · Talk⇒Dinoguy1000 19:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Title

Why is this article called Negima! Magister Negi Magi? It's not the title of the book in Japanese (Mahou Sensei Negima!), an accurate translation of the title in English (Magic Teacher Negima!), or what the book is called in English-speaking markets (Negima!). Shouldn't this article be under Negima! or Mahou Sensei Negima!? Marshall Stax (talk) 01:04, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Negima! Magister Negi Magi is the full English title of the manga. —Farix (t | c) 02:18, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Latin translation

Adeat isn't a mistake. The article is right that it's not the imperative, but Adeat is the jussive subjunctive, it's still a command (article implies a screw-up, its not, if one command's a third person (ie he she it) then its properly done).

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.156.31 (talk) 02:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I've changed the translation of "Master Magi" as "Master of Magic" because the translation as a "teacher" doesn't belong here, master in latin is both teacher and expert or master, and here i believe the translation is more accurate as "master"

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.126.197.142 (talk) 19:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I removed the Roman Phonetic spelling of "ecchi" from the article as to prevent any confusion between languages. I replaced it with the word lascivious, which is used to describe anything that is lewd or sexual. For future revisions, it is best to not use roman phonetics of the Japanese language, as this is an article in English; exceptions of course being Names of people, places, or organizations/businesses. 64.138.215.134 (talk) Mason 22:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Recent Chapters and the Plot/Subplot list

Technically, due to Kosmoentelechia's assault all around the ballroom/island (Chapters 274 - 277/present), wouldn't the ball techincally have ended now, even if prematurely? It should be updated, but due to the lack of change, I was wondering if it was wise to hold off until the main battle begins or edit it now. 92.41.229.59 (talk) 14:58, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Editting it, as Dynamis is NOT the Lifemaker. 92.41.141.132 (talk) 01:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Do people know what's a reference ?

Can you just put some references.
Like that : Negima! French publisher Pika KrebMarkt 08:57, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

More refs

Comics journal vol 11 review --KrebMarkt 19:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC) ANN Right Turn Only vol. 25 review --KrebMarkt 19:51, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Review(s)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by TheFarix (talk • contribs) 17:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by KrebMarkt (talk • contribs) 18:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

This article may need a "critical reception" section to improve quality

I hope that someone could maybe make a section where people can read about how successful Negima has become? As well as some reliable sources and reviews from many critics about this anime. I think that's what this article is missing. Blueknightex (talk) 01:47, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Negima!_Magister_Negi_Magi/Archive_3&oldid=1211679713"