Talk:Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind/Archive 1

Archive 1

Not a Joan D'arc Figure

I take exception to the claim that Nausicaa is a Joan D'arc Figure. thats absurd. Joan D'arc was a warrior who faught her entire historical career and was burned at the stake by her enemies. Nausicaa is clearly a messianic figure who dies for her people and his restored to life for her sacrifice. Anyhow, I've edited around this because I can see where the idea stems from. I think the current layout looks good as it stands, provided the extra details don't get deleted again.

  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aeros86 (talk • contribs) 16:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC) 

Yes, the whole thing is not suited for wikipedia, I am taking it entirely alway, including the fan speculated messiah thing. A lot of figures have died in place of others, and usually they die for innocent figures like here, the messianic figure should die for people with sin, not innocent village people. If she died for the soldiers setting up the trap, fine, but I must remind you that tons of anime and manga got the idea that human beings, at least some of the nobler minded ones usually throw themselves in front of danger in futile attempts to save others not because they are messianic figures, just because it is a perfect way the author can think of to show their nobleness in mind. MythSearcher^talk 17:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Whilst the "increasingly becomes a messianic figure" bit is inappropriate for the reasons you note, the following para on the fulfilment of the prophecy which you deleted was pretty much on the mark. The film starts with the prophesy of a messiah (promised deliverer of a people), and immediately hints that Nausicaa is that messiah (crossfade from angel robed in blue to Nausicaa robed in blue and seemingly winged). That she is indeed this angel/messiah is ultimately declared to tbe the case by the old wise woman at the end of the film, on hearing the description of Nausicaa clad in blue crossing a field of gold. No supporting reference is needed for this, it is simply a synopsis of an important part of the film plot. In the manga, it is even more clearly stated (indeed rammed down the reader's throat) that Nausicaa is the legendary blue-clad messiah (although the word used in the English translation is "apostle", I don't know what term the original Japanese uses.) Samatarou 22:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Banned

"The original version was - after its release in the 1980s - banned in Eastern Europe and briefly boycotted in Germany due to its unsettling presentation of ecological crisis.[2]"

this part is in the moment under discussion in the german wikipedia because there are no other sources than the imdb entry.

if there are other sources please cite them. (in germany only the cut version Warriors of the Wind was sold until of late) 194.76.29.2 13:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

(added heading to this section) --h2g2bob (talk) 07:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Rename

Note: I've renamed the page from Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind to Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind, as the latter form is that used by the published English translation of the manga. --Brion 01:41 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

Question to 200.165.239.234: why are you replacing "Valley of Wind" with "Valley of the Wind" again? As far as I know, the only official English names are those in the Viz translation of the manga, which is consistently "Valley of Wind", no "the". If I'm wrong, please cite a source. --Brion 02:08 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

Because "the wind" is correct in English in this context and "wind" isn't. The translators don't get everything right.

Am I to take this on faith, or can you explain why the insertion of the English definite article is correct in this context, or at least cite a source that can? --Brion

I have to admit that it may make more sense to name it after the name its usually been titled under, even if its not completely correct English. As this is largely a reference site, perhaps going for the more easilly referenced name is better.

---

-- The original names strike me as much more "correct" and evocative than the English translations. I think we lose a lot when we change "Moria" (LotR) to "busted-up old Dwarvish city" and "Bene Gesserit" (Dune) to "eccentric old ladies". Let's give priority to the original names.

So it should be 風の谷, not "Valley of (the) Wind"? I have my doubts. :) --Brion 02:18 Sep 27, 2002 (UTC)

LOL, touché. Unfortunately, I do not. Nausicaä is a part of my personal spirituality, and I have strong and not entirely rational feelings about it. We'll see how the rewrites shake out. Have a good one.

(added heading to this section) --h2g2bob (talk) 07:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

English Translation of this movie

Actually, the movie is often translated to just Valley of the Wind. In the version released in Hong Kong, the translated name, literally, is Valley of the Wind.

Recent News

It has been announced by Disney that this movie is going to be released soon. The article can be found on the Nausicaa.net link. If there are any changes to the current release date of February 22, 2005 and it hasn't been updated yet then feel free to update it.

The TV ads for it are calling it ..."Valley of the Wind". RickK 08:54, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)

The Viz site even calls it "the Wind" now. I see no reason to keep "Valley of Wind" anywhere. piman 21:00, 2005 Feb 26 (UTC)

Any stated connections to Dune, Matrix?

I wonder if Miyazaki has ever said anything about its relation to Dune and The Matrix. A-giau 07:06, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Not in anything I've read. I don't really see any connections either (except Dune also occurs on a largely desert planet). Besides that, the Matrix came out 15 years later, and I think Miyazaki finished revisiting Nausicaa when he made Mononoke. piman 04:04, 2005 Mar 15 (UTC)

All of them have messianic figures who attempt to bring about a balance between humanity and a creation (or its consequence) gone wild in the form of either toxic jungle or insect-like machine world, even as some humans continue to seek vengence rather than redemption. There's a suggestion in both that the feared Other may in fact be a morally superior being. More concretely the way Nausika is "uplifted" by the ohmu tentacles uncannily resembles Neo's final state. I wouldn't be surprised if the Matrix creators had seen Nausicaa beforehand. Dune is not as ready a parallel, though here the Freemen (sp?) can be said to be like the VotW people, for whom Nature embodies danger yet is deserving of respect at the same time. Nausika's seeming rapport with the ohmu (which like the sand worms are giant beasts having seemingly extrasensory powers) is like the Freemen's , etc. etc. But this is all just a Wikipedian's musing (which I shall refrain from inclusion in the article in the form of "Some critics [ie. Wikipedians] have suggested...") :) . A-giau 09:30, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

While these relations are pretty valid, they're also somewhat general you have to admit. The whole post apocolyptic setting has been a popular setting for countless stories, as is also the whole Messiah to bring balance to humanity premise. Anything else seems somewhat coincidential, I don't think anything really stands out as particularly derived from Dune or to the Matrix.

If it helps, The Anime Encyclopedia claims the ending was lifted from Dune. Brutannica 05:28, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I've always thought the ohmu-sandworm connection was more than coincidence. Also, both deal with theme of ecology, more specifically, drastic changes in an ecosystem as part of a loooooong cycle. That theme's a little less prominent. As far as the Matrix thing, doubt it. Oystermind 02:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, talking about similar subjects often brings the same images. It is very tempting to imagine powerful beings to personify nature's might and anger. At the end of first tome of the mange (French edition, but I guess US version have the same text), Miyazaki makes no secret of his inspirations : he mixed the Odysseus character of Nausicaa described by Bernard Evslin in a dictionary of Greek Mythology and a character from Konjaku Monogatari (Stories that now belong to the past). He doesn't name her but says her nickname meant "princess who loved insects". --Iv 22:38, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

This is a strange claim, the Japanese release of Nausicaa happened 9 month before the US release of Lynch's Dune. --Iv 22:41, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as the Novel of Dune came out 20 years before this I'd say it proberly is at least influenced by Dune (like a lot of Sci Fi).FSAB (talk) 20:04, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Unlikely. Ohmu live in forests, not deserts; they evolved from arthropods, not worms to which they bear no physical resemblance. They play a completely different role in the plot and have a much more personal relationship with the main character, particularly in the manga. Wiki-Ed (talk) 21:15, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Plot

This page seems to be very lacking in plot info, compared to Wikis for other movies, or even for other Miyazaki anime. Would anyone care to fix that?

• I don't know about that... the movie summary seems pretty solid to me, though the manga section definitely does need more. I haven't read the manga series yet though, so I'm afraid I'm not the person to write about it. —Tarnas 02:33, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

• (Reply) - For starters, the ending isn't there. I'm looking for something more like the Wiki for The Matrix and such.

I'll add in more details on the manga (which is far superior to the film), but it is one of those stories which is open to interpretation (like The Matrix) so don't expect too much. Wiki-Ed 12:20, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

This is still on my to-do list, but it's quite a difficult task. I'll probably cut it down drastically so I'd caution people against adding much to the synopsis section. Wiki-Ed 10:18, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

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Isn't this Article "VERY" Biased?

First of all, this Article on Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind says absolutely nothing about the 1984 release. If this is to be a truly neutral and or objective article, should it not include the voice cast, box images, etc, of the 1984 release? Also, why is there no comparison between the Disney dubbed version and the 1984 dubbed version in regards to translations? This article needs to be reevaluated, because its neutrality is extremely questionable. Dante the Bard 00:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Uh, see the "Releases" section. I think the lack of information is really due to lack of interest in that version. If you have the requisite information, go ahead and turn Warriors of the Wind into a proper article, instead of the current redirect. - mako 01:27, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Have you seen the release section? As you can see, it is overwhelmingly biased from the perspective of the fans who prefer the Disney version versus 1984 version. As you can see, that proves my point. By there being a lack of interest in the 1984 version, this article is not neutral nor objective. Requesting another article won't solve the problem, since "Warriors of the Wind" information should be included with Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind article, regardless of the fact that Studio Ghibli wishes it to be forgotten. Isn't Wikipedia's purpose to uphold a neutral point of view and show the objective truth? Dante the Bard 03:43, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

It reads to me like the 1984 version differed significantly from Miyazaki's vision. This is the fiasco that led to the 'no-edits' policy, which is really the main point of that section. But anyway, Warriors of the Wind may be a big enough subject to merit its own page (and it sounds like you have such information to contribute), and it may be modified to the point where it is unrecognizable as Nausicaa, I don't know. You could just add it to this page, but it's getting rather bloated already and probably needs splitting. That's why I suggested making a separate article.

Be bold and add your info where you see fit. - mako 21:01, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia does observe the concept known as notability--not every video release is as significant as every other, and there's nothing unencyclopedic about spending more time on the more significant ones. NPOV does not mean that one never has to make subjective judgments--we make them all the time when we decide what deserves an article and what doesn't. Nareek 06:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Ending of the manga

{{spoiler}} In reading the Manga, it was my interpretation that Nausicaa had doomed humanity to extinction -- the miasma would eventually go away, the humans then on the earth could not survive without it, and she destroyed the technology to revive humans who could have survived. Is this the normal reading of the book? Uucp 21:11, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Ha ha. Yes. I was kind of confused about that when I first read and I am still not sure whether this is what Miyazaki intended or not. Since humans have evolved in one way presumably there is no reason they can't evolve another way to live in a nice new green shiny Earth in the time it would take to "clean" the land under the most recent daikaisho depicted in the story. But there could be multiple interpretations; I think the complexity of the story at the end is what has endeared it to me. However, Nausicaa is supposed to be a "saviour" of both humans and the Earth alike. Therefore I think it would be unlikely if she doomed humanity to extinction. Wiki-Ed 11:56, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't get everything about the god warriors?

Why did the earth burn? WTF? and what is a "god warrior?"--Frenchman113 23:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I recommend reading the manga as it explains a lot more than the film. You can also check out Nausicaa.net, as it has a lot of good information. --日本穣 Nihonjoe 00:08, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Boycotted in Germany?

Boycotted in Germany? I, being German, never heard of such a thing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.73.5.156 (talk • contribs) .

This does not mean that it is wrong - after discussion on the german Wikipedia no proven facts for a error at the IMDB showed up. 84.151.139.80 18:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

but noone was able to find proof that it was so. so in the moment it is an unproved statement 217.91.55.124 22:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Merges

I think that the material on the pages covering Namulith and Miralupa should, with minor spoiler-fixing, be aded to the main Mausicaa article. Finite 22:33, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

If the Namulith and Miralupa pages should be merged in anywhere, it should be into the Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind (manga) page. Neither character makes an appearance in the film. --Dajagr 23:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Seconded. Xander77 21:22, 06 January 06

• Oppose - a merged article would be way too long --h2g2bob (talk) 07:31, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Manga Information

Since information about the manga was split out into its own page, how much of the remaining information about the manga is still relevant to this article? The Manga section does a good job of being relevant by comparing the manga to the film (should that be reflected in the section title?), but the information about the manga under Releases no longer seems like it's necessary. --Dajagr 23:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

God Warrior is a conceptual ancestor of Neon genesis EVA

Nausicaa anime has had great influence on the artistic and creative efforts of current anime creators. If one follows correctly, it is revealed that the funtionality of EVA is much similar to GOD warrior in nausicaa. 202.125.143.67 14:47, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure - the god warrior always seemed to be a metaphor for nuclear weapons (if only I could find a source for that...). However, the animation style is similar in parts, as one might expect. --h2g2bob (talk) 00:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

It is not the influence on current anime creators, if you read the article and follow everything, the animator who did the god warrior part became a director, and guess what, he is THE director of EVA. Not strange to see the similarities of two works created by the same person, right? MythSearcher^talk 03:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I've uploaded a picture of the God Warrior. We could do with a brief nausicaa/evangelion comparison, or at least some mention of the God Warrior being an important scene, but I'm having difficulty finding good sources on anything. --h2g2bob (talk) 19:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

When I watched the movie I thought that god is moving like an EVA. Later I found out in the making of Anno really was the animator of that scene. Maybe that's just the way he things over sized big creatures would move. --Himiko —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.74.83.224 (talk) 01:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Disney's edits to the movie?

I've heard there's a scene where Nausicaa is flying her Mehve, not wearing anything under her skirt, and that Disney added panties on her. I guess 'no cuts' doesn't translate as NO editing at all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 10:40, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

We'll never know whether she's wearing underwear or not... she has a pair of breeches on at all times. Wiki-Ed 13:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Um. Yeah. As the preceding comment mentioned, you heard wrong. Perhaps you should see the film before even suggesting something like that? 68.96.255.13 02:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Heh. To the OP's defense, when I watched this about 20 years or so ago, I too thought she was wearing a mini-skirt with nothing else on, which was odd since the air is apparently, poisonous. On a more recent viewing it would appear that she is indeed wearing breeches, albeit with no fabric detail and skin-coloured... You can tell she's not nude by the fact the breeches actually flap in the wind.--Sth128 07:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Tolmekian / Torumekian

Which should we use? The UK DVD says "Tolmekia", while Nausicaa,net says "Torumekia".[1] Which one should be used? --h2g2bob (talk) 07:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

In the film it is pronounced Tolmekia (iirc), in the manga it is Torumekia. Wiki-Ed 10:54, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Mehve, not Möwe

Someone is trying too hard to be "accurate" and is changing every mention of Mehve to Möwe. Every instance has been changed back. Mehve is the Studio Ghibli-approved transliteration of the German word möwe but it appears in English translations as Mehve, and changing it to Möwe on Wikipedia is unnecessary, inconsistent, and potentially confusing. There's really no need for us to prove our anime fandom, or our German language skills, in this way. In the context of Nausicaä, the name is transliterated as "Mehve." Let's leave it that way.

The official name of it is Möwe, I have provided a link to proof it, while I see no proof from your arguement of Mehve. Also, you have to at least keep the source quote consistent, the link says Möwe, the picture of the box says Möwe, you cannot just change it to Mehve because Möwe is the direct quote. MythSearcher^talk 16:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Your proof regarding the official English transliteration of the name is an external link to an online retailer selling a Ban Dai model kit? I see that it's licensed by Studio Ghibli, but that's not quite good enough. It's Mehve (almost) everywhere else. But if you have to change it back to Möwe, at least retain the rest of the minor edits that were made to the section, rather than reverting all of them.

Look at the box please, on the box, it is clearly written as Möwe. As I have said, it is a direct quote, you cannot just change it to Mehve. It is like quoting somebody's speech and change words within it and still claim that it is directly quoted. It is fraud. MythSearcher^talk 16:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

BTW, it got an engine, that is no way a pure glider even though most of the time it is gliding. It is an aeroplane according to the definition, a powered heavier-than-air aircraft, thus a plane. I don't know if storage of a rifle on the back makes it armed or not(there is no way the gun could be fired on it when gliding.) MythSearcher^talk 16:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm of split opinion on making it its own article - the section doesn't seem to be big enough to warrant its own page, but I can easily see a main article on it. JAF1970 01:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

If it makes the article too long, go for it. If not, keep it as it is. MythSearcher^talk 13:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

In the only official source - the manga - it is spelt "mehve". There is no mention of the other spelling. I have corrected the article and provided a reference (one of many possible). Wiki-Ed (talk) 21:40, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Studio Ghibli

This could be clearer:

This is the first anime featured-length film created by Studio Ghibli (considered before Studio Ghibli was established).

Was the film made before Ghibli was established? It's part fo the Ghibli collection, but I don't think Ghibli had been formally created at that time. --h2g2bob (talk) 19:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I've changed that bit, but it could do with being worded better (please be bold!) --h2g2bob (talk) 20:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Mehve reference

Recently I was visiting the gorillaz website looking through the kong studios tours. One thing that caught my attention was the Mehve, which was located in the store room. When you highlight the Mehve it states "Fly off to the Valley of the Wind." Should something like this be noted on the article? I was just wondering since something similar to this is referenced under the trivia for Castle in the Sky. True_Sephiroth 20:03 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.47.169.234 (talk) 03:03, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not good to add trivia to articles. There must be any number of websites which pay homage to Nausicaa in some way. Samatarou 22:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)