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What about non Native Americans who build and play Native American flutes

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What about non Native Americans who play Native American music/flutes in and not in Native American fashion? I am thinking of Werner John. In particular is Cedar Song, and he has mp3 samples (sample: Canon)at his web site. Oh, he makes the Native American flutes he uses by himself. Of course he sells his recordings and he sell his flutes, but the commercial nature of his enterprise should not, in my opinion, drown out the beauty of his music produced on handmade Native American flutes often with Native American themes. Of course a new section should be provided, perhaps entitled Non Native Americans Playing Native American Flutes. How about that? --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling 02:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My opinion, for whatever it's worth: this page is about the instrument itself, and not about the people who play them. People who play them should each get their own separate pages that then link back to this one, e.g. "Werner John plays the (link)native American flute(/link)." NerwenGreen 08:18, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree with you NerwenGreen.Also if I may express something...Respect is something that non native american, non-first peoples, seem to disregard. It is perfectly ok to raid a grave and take for study that which was placed in the grave? Apparently that's ok, it is justified.Same thing concerning Native American Flutes...if they a flute is crafted by a white dude, it isnt native american, pure and simple, it is a copy of and is a native style flute, just like chinese made dream catchers you find in the gas stations...as for different tribes, some tribes don't allow female drummers, some do..same as flute playing....non first peoples have so little clue as to respecting cultures..i.e., wagon trains passing thru Lakota territory are only passing thru and will take only wagon wheel space..wasnt the point, the point was, they were trepassing, dakota land taken because more whites were living in the counties than natives wasnt a justifiable reason...the POINT I'm making to those that read this, is the TAKING, from native spirituality to native crafting by non natives is a sign of disrespect, no matter how you boil it...even now people are saying NAF flutes probably crafted by europeans who came here , fact is NAF flutes tho some say as are now originated in 1800's, have been around longer than that, this based on natives I know who have in their possession flutes from their relatives, and oral tradition stories, and no, you cannot study their flutes.64.58.250.110 (talk) 00:11, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Classical composers using the flute

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I don't know about Ballard in particular, but it could be that the composer was comissioned to create a piece with the flute, but that the piece isn't part of the composer's normal repretoire and isn't necessarilly on any of their recordings. I know Phillip Glass has had such a commission, but I doubt the work was recorded for release, nor would evidence exist of it outside of local papers. On the other hand, I don't think that we need an list of every classical composer who has used the instrument.

However, it would be nice to discuss any if they are using it frequently, or to mention how it is used (ie that it seems to be used more as a solo instrument) and why (it isn't canonical in an orchestra, they aren't often concert tuned, lack range, have a unique haunting sound that works well as a featured instrument). Smmurphy(Talk) 02:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Listing prominent flautists

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We are beginning to have a list of flutists (or flautists, if you will), which is really unnecessary. If a flutist has contributed to the field in such a way that they should be mentioned along with their contribution (Nakai and Nevaquaya come to mind), then great. But a list for lists sake is out of place. Right now there is a section of List of Native American musicians devoted to flutists, perhaps a link to that article would be better and sufficient. Smmurphy(Talk) 16:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd agree that anybody mentioned in the article ought to be at the level of recognition of Nakai or so, and that for the rest, maybe you could do a {{main}} template that links directly to the section List of Native American musicians#Native American flute. I've been reverting the deletions of one particular name from the list at this article because that's part of a separate issue with one editor, who disputes the flutist's Native American ancestry, and I'm assuming this article is about people who play Native American flute, not necessarily Native American people who play Native American flute. I'm not going to make the call about whether he's notable or not, but if he gets deleted with some of the others of lesser notabilty, I wouldn't have a problem with that. (if explained in the edit summary!) But if someone who isn't Native American is listed, they obviously won't be added to the List of Native American musicians. Katr67 18:26, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That is what I was worried about, because once you get into that dispute... well (by the way, have you seen Native American identity in the United States and Native American recognition in the United States, two articles which discuss some aspects of the issue). I'll bring up the question at the list article, as its been brought up before. Does anyone else object to removing some of the less notable flutists and explaining why some of the more notable flutists could be discussed in this article without being merely listed (I'm thinking a mention of the dispute about women playing the flute - and linking Mary and Joanna - would be an example). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smmurphy (talk • contribs) 18:42, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is a blatant stereotype to assign all playing of the traditional Lakota flute or other such instrument to American Indians only. The purpose of a list is to group information; if there is enough information in a topic and it would make WP more accessible, by all means there should be a list of said musicians. While its true there is a list of Sicilian American jazz musicians, they are grouped under List of Sicilian-Americans, separate from List of jazz musicians. The same conditions apply here. • Freechild'sup? 15:54, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think anyone here is saying that only Native Americans play Native American flute. The above discussion is more about notability and how to organize information about flutists. The List of Native American musicians, is, however supposed to only contain people with Native American ancestry, which is a separate issue from who is listed here. The current listing in the article is in paragraph form, so it was getting unwieldy with people adding names to it. If we need a separate section that's a list, we could certainly add one, though it would necessarily partially duplicate the list of Native American musicians. Katr67 (talk) 18:19, 18 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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I'm a bit concerned about the Legal Issues section, in the sense that it might be construed as offering legal advice. It currently says that 'Non-native makers must at least include such terms as "style" in descriptions of their wares.' I will agree that it is common practice to include the word style if you're a non-native maker, but I don't know of a ruling that says that adding style is sufficient. I'm not arguing about the content of what is said on the page, just that it might be construed as providing authoritative legal advice. If we can't find a doc that makes it clear, then maybe it's prudent to change the phrase to something like "Flutes crafted by makers who are not distinguished by IACA-1990 often call their instruments “Native American Style Flutes”." (I'm quoting from my web page on the subject[1], and it would need to be altered appropriately.) ClintGoss (talk) 17:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Clint Goss (2012). "Honoring the Tradition". Flutopedia. Retrieved 2012-02-19.
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