Talk:Nationalist government

Question

I'm slightly confused. The Nationalist Government is the government of the Republic of China. It's true that it's a one party state, but why do we refer to The Nationalist Government as a "state", instead of "the ruling government of a state"? For comparison, the Chinese article is 中華民國國民政府, Nationalist Government of the Republic of China, and the article refers to it as a government, not a state. JimSukwutput 20:17, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I share your concerns as well. I've changed to phrase to, "The Nationalist Government of the Republic of China (ROC; Chinese: 中華民國國民政府; pinyin: Zhōnghuá mínguó guómín zhèngfǔ) was established in 1927 with its capital in Nanjing, and was the ruling governmental authority of China between 1928 to 1948 led by the Kuomintang (also known as the Chinese Nationalist Party), until the Government of the Republic of China under the newly promulgated Constitution of the Republic of China was established in its place." Raiolu (talk) 21:27, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Timeline

It was discussed in Talk:Republic of China (1912–1949)#Disputed that this article will cover the period between 1928 and 1949 to fill in the void between the 1912-1928 period and the post-1949 period. However, the current revision of the article shows the timeframe to be between 1927 and 1947. However, if one were to look at the Chinese-language version of the article, you will realize that the Nationalist Government was actually founded on July 1, 1925 in Guangzhou and was officially abolished on May 20, 1948 when Chiang Kai-shek was inaugurated as the 1st ROC President under the constitution. I've changed the "year_end" value of the infobox to 1948 as a result of that, but have not done the same for the "year_start" value.

To properly fill in the gaps in between the three periods, I propose should change it to 1928-1949 (1928 being the year when the KMT declared China as "unified" after capturing Beijing, and gaining international recognition as a result, as well as 1949, when the government retreated to Taiwan). However, we should also make slight mention of the 1925 establishment of the Nationalist Government in Guangzhou, the rival Wuhan Nationalist Government, and finally the 1927 establishment of the Nanjing Nationalist Government, which is the main focus of this article. It might sound a little confusing for some editors, but those who have read the Chinese version of the article will understand where I am coming from. Raiolu (talk) 21:27, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

ROC Territories

In zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/中華民國國民政府 it indicates on ROC Territories that there is Republic of China People's Republic of China Mongolia Russia Tajik Afghanistan Pakistan Bhutan Myanmar Korea India some thing is missing. Dadapotato (talk) 17:30, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes and for Russia you should say Tannu Tuva 207.253.54.66 (talk) 12:04, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Infobox State removed by Fetbesh23

I think he was right to remove the infobox since it was not a state, but still, this would be great to add a submit to Wikipedia a new infobox for old governments or find a template. I think there is an infobox government. But it might not have some required things, like Is part ofLinguiyi (talk) 21:25, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• 中華民國國旗歌 (演奏版).ogg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:07, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Chairperson

List of Presidents of the Republic of China list the first Chairperson is Tan Yankai (1928). Please provide reliable source for Wang Jingwei (1925). Please provide reliable source or i considered as adding hoax. Matthew hk (talk) 15:30, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Map

Please form a consensus to change to non-SVG map first here. Stable version had SVG map (see the article history in 2013. even older version of the article use another map, but was File:Map-ROC.png in clean color scheme (grey for other countries, highlighted for the subject). Matthew hk (talk) 14:08, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

This article's infobox map problem is same as the article Republic of China (1912–1949)'s. Please talk about this problem in Talk:Republic of China (1912–1949)#Map. 123.150.182.179 14:44, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

It may or may not be the same, Nationalist government was overlapping with the era of Japanese invasion. Also, de jure It represented whole China (i.e. Republic of China (1912–1949)), however, it did not have effective control of Tibet and many many other place, so it may need a way more complex map to show place that was controlled by the remaining warlords, under foreign control (either as British semi-colony and Japanese force), and also counting Communist controlled area. Despite 复旦大学张超 was blocked, which his change the map to File:Nationalist government of Nanking - nominally ruling over entire China, 1930 (2675972715).jpg may have his point. Lastly, there is parameter |alt_map= so please considered to name one. Matthew hk (talk) 15:18, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

The map "File:China 1933.jpg" shows the Republic of China during the rule of Nationalist government in 1930s. It is enough. Thus, this article's infobox map problem is same as the article Republic of China (1912–1949)'s. It is redundant to have more discussion here. Please talk about this problem in Talk:Republic of China (1912–1949)#Map. 123.150.182.177 15:30, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Again, I repeat, Wikipedia is a collaboration project , which in case of no [new] consensus , old consensus or "stable version" applies. Since you had edit warring with 复旦大学张超 on the map on this article and his edit had some logic, please wait for other people to participate in this discussion of a controversial change. It is out of scope to have bold edit on such matter. Matthew hk (talk) 15:43, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

I repeat that the map "File:China 1933.jpg" shows the Republic of China during the rule of Nationalist government in 1930s. It is enough. Thus, this article's infobox map problem is same as the article Republic of China (1912–1949)'s. Please talk about this problem in Talk:Republic of China (1912–1949)#Map, with the infobox map of the article Republic of China (1912–1949). In addition, the map "File:Nationalist government of Nanking - nominally ruling over entire China, 1930 (2675972715).jpg" lost Aksai Chin and South Tibet from the territories of the Republic of China. However, China continues to proclaims Chinese sovereignty over Aksai Chin and South Tibet. So the map "File:Nationalist government of Nanking - nominally ruling over entire China, 1930 (2675972715).jpg" is inappropriate. 123.150.182.177 10:33, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Then it have nothing really wrong with File:Republic of China (orthographic projection, historical).svg. Matthew hk (talk) 10:35, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

I answered this question by opposing the map you said with reasonable reasons in Talk:Republic of China (1912–1949)#Map. Please see my comments carefully and never ask the same question answered by others. 123.150.182.177 10:44, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

In the de jure and de facto sense, the 1933.jpg is wrong. For this article i would say two maps should be used to also show the de facto boundary that under the central "Nationalist/KMT" government. Matthew hk (talk) 12:38, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

However, the map "File:China 1933.jpg" is no problem. About the de jure thing, the map "File:China 1933.jpg" shows the Republic of China during the rule of Nationalist government, which was the sole representative of whole China, in 1930s. About the de facto thing, during the rule of Nationalist government, Nationalist government continued to fight against the regional warlords, the Communist party of China and Empire of Japan, so the region controlled by Nationalist government also continued to change, nearly every year. In addition, although the central government was controlled by Nationalist government, other regions were controlled by the regional warlords, the Communist party of China and Empire of Japan, respectively, so the region really controlled by Nationalist government is too small. Thus, the two maps you mentioned are inappropriate. In conclusion, we can use the map "File:China 1933.jpg" as the infobox map of the the article "Nationalist government" with the map caption "Republic of China in 1930s" and the code <ref> to state the region really controlled by Nationalist government in the map caption. This method can solve the problem you concerned effectively and avoid using other inappropriate maps. 123.150.182.179 07:17, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Quote 3 incomplete - complete or remove.

The quote getting to Jonathan Fenby's book? / publication, is incomplete.

Wikipedia's own history of the man clearly indicate a lifelong history of working/publishing inside British institutions / in positions of influence, why should we as-readers assume there's nothing-suspicious about this quote if it's LEFT incomplete?

it would come as no-surprise that the initial "strike first" against the PRC's predecessor, needing to've been genuine, else if-not delegitimizing many of the sequences of events that happened as-a-result of it right up to the present day,.. could still be of interest to foreign powers that vainly want to turn back time. 120.21.22.154 (talk) 08:18, 28 August 2022 (UTC)