Talk:National Airlines Flight 27

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External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on National Airlines Flight 27. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:

Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.dchieftain.com/dc/index.php/news/1488-aircraft-down.html

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External links modified

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I have just modified one external link on National Airlines Flight 27. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110408023924/http://www.super70s.com:80/super70s/tech/aviation/disasters/73-11-03(National).asp to http://www.super70s.com/Super70s/Tech/Aviation/Disasters/73-11-03%28National%29.asp

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Possible images for use

I found a picture of the evacuation of Flight 27 on Wikimedia Commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:National_Airlines_Flight_27_after_emergency_landing.jpg

I also found a picture of N60NA, the aircraft involved, albeit with a different name. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:National_Airlines_DC-10_N60NA_%22Suzanne%22_(cropped).jpg CriticalMaster95 (talk) 01:18, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Partial rewrite; or, Complete article overhaul

Hello Fellow Wikipedians,

I have overhauled this article with additional encyclopedic content, sections, and images, and other fixes, incorporating information in the existing sources; I therefore added no new sources.

Please boldly assess this article for inclusion of C-class rating.

Cheers, Kehkou (talk) 01:48, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Remains found during VLA construction?

The article at present says According to one source, "Two years after the incident, construction began on the Very Large Array radio telescope. While building the tracks north of U.S. 60, the VLA track crew made a gruesome discovery by uncovering human remains. The Office of Medical Investigator was contacted and removed the remains to Albuquerque for identification and cause of death. After nearly a year, it was determined the skeletal remains found on the VLA north arm was that of passenger 17H of Flight 27. The cause of death was fairly obvious. The remains were returned to the family in Texas."

The article Very Large Array has a similar passage: During construction in 1975, workers laying the tracks for the northern arm of the array discovered a human skeleton north of US-60. A year later, the remains were identified as belonging to a male airline passenger who was ejected from National Airlines Flight 27 at 39,000 feet (12,000 m) two years earlier, after the DC-10-10 servicing the flight (N60NA) experienced an uncontained engine failure, causing cabin decompression.

This triggers my bullshit detector. The only cited source for this claim, both here and in the VLA article, is a local-interest feature piece in the website for small-town newspaper El Defensor Chieftain that itself provides no sources for the claim; the original 2010 column is no longer online, but it's on the Wayback Machine. The piece has no authorship listed; it is attributed only to "admin". (The VLA article includes another source for the passage, but it's used to source the discussion of the disaster, with no mention of the found body or of the VLA.)

Mandsford helpfully added the now-footnote "However, no reports can be found from newspapers in the 1970s of the discovery of skeletal remains of the airline passenger.", with the skeptical edit summary Cited source of "El Defensor Chieftain" is sparse in details is not confirmed by contemporary newspapers from the 1970s. I agree.

The only other source I can find that doesn't relate back to either this Wikipedia article or to Very Large Array is:

Simpson, Paul (16 October 2014). The Mammoth Book of Air Disasters and Near Misses. Little, Brown Book Group. ISBN 978-1-78033-829-3.

which rewords the Chieftain column, but adds no additional detail. Based on the biography of the author Simpson, while I'm sure his books are entertaining, there's no indication they are well-researched scholarly works. From the fragment I can see of the book's sources, Simpson's sole basis for the claim is the same Chieftain column.

The Chieftain piece doesn't seem to be a reliable source, and as Mandsford points out, the recovery of the body appears not to have been reported in news media, or anywhere else, as one would expect. I would propose striking it from this article and from Very Large Array unless someone can cite to a more reliable source. TJRC (talk) 21:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note, I've left a message over at Talk:Very Large Array notifying editors there of this discussion. TJRC (talk) 21:45, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And this is embarrassing: I now see that I'm the guy who added this, about fourteen years ago, in my relatively early days of editing Wikipedia, presumably before I had a good grasp on the nuances of reliable sourcing.

This doesn't change my opinion: that was a bad edit, even if I'm the one who made it, and I still think it should be stricken. TJRC (talk) 22:03, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]