Talk:Nathan Larson (criminal)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Nathan Larson (criminal) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 365 days

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Virginia Low‑importance

	Virginia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Virginia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Virginia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.VirginiaWikipedia:WikiProject VirginiaTemplate:WikiProject VirginiaVirginia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics: American / Libertarianism Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by American politics task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	Libertarianism portal This article is supported by WikiProject Libertarianism (assessed as Low-importance).

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, 25 December 2020, see discussion.
keep, 13 June 2018, see discussion.

Requested move 28 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) Silikonz💬 13:45, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Larson (criminal) → Nathan Daniel Larson – middle name is a WP:NATDAB so there isn't any need to haggle over what label to emphasize in a parenthesis LichCake (talk) 06:19, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: As far as I can tell, sources do not generally include his middle name as part of his WP:COMMONNAME. The middle name only seems to be included in very formal settings. In the list of cited sources, his middle name appears in the titles only for formal court proceedings. Unfortunately, I don't have a much better suggestion. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 09:44, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Per WP:MIDDLENAME: Adding given names, or their abbreviations, merely for disambiguation purposes (if that format of the name is not commonly used to refer to the person) is not advised. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 11:15, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeAs per above do not generally include his middle name as part of his WP:COMMONNAME. The middle name only seems to be included in very formal settings. In the list of cited sources, his middle name appears in the titles only for formal court proceedings.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:20, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- NBC uses the full name in https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alleged-pedophile-white-supremacist-arrested-kidnapping-12-yr-old-girl-n1251832 as does https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/20/us/virginia-kidnapping-12-year-old-fresno-denver/index.html for CNN. LichCake (talk) 00:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - Although the NBC article contains the full name for the sake of completeness of identification and reporting of exact details, they don't use it as his common name. The sub-heading just has "Nathan Larson", and so does the photo caption. The middle name appears only once in the article, while the shorter version without it is used twice. Similarly, the middle name appears only once in the CNN article (plus once in the caption of the mug shot) – in the rest of that article he's just "Larson". Also, at that point the news they were reporting was very fresh. They may not have known much more than what they were given by the police department. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:48, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:MIDDLENAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:29, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose sources don't use his middle name. Wes sideman (talk) 11:13, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Image

There's room for debate on whether to use a mugshot or a professional polished photo that makes him look like an officeholder. Per MOS:PERTINENCE, "Images must be relevant in the topic's context" - I don't think a faux-politician photo is relevant, as his actual political career was virtually non-existent. His criminal activities were what made him notable, so personally, I would go with the mugshot, although others may disagree. Wes sideman (talk) 17:37, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

+1 on that. The political photo is 15 years old now, and now features further down the page. So IMO, the more recent pic is more appropriate - Alison ^talk 18:18, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Most generally reliable sources portray Larson in suit and tie:

Tabloids and generally unreliable sources will tend more to portray him with the mugshot:

Local and indie news outlets are more mixed. Sometimes they go only with the mugshot, sometimes they use both pictures, a few times only the suit and tie:

Most results from WP refs portray him with both the mugshot and the suit and tie (not all sources that show up there are reliable, though). Since there doesn't seem to be a specific guideline about what image is best for using in a BLP infobox, I say we stick to the reliable sources that stood scrutiny over the years in Wikipedia and use the most formal picture. SparklyNights 18:50, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Generally speaking, the practice is to go with the most recent photograph that meets licensing requirements, and/or the photograph that is most relevant to the subject's notability. His notability is because he is a criminal, not because he looks snappy in a suit. The suit photo was uploaded by one of Larson's Wikipedia sockpuppets; in other words, it's the image by which Larson chose to be viewed by Wikipedia readers. I'd leave things as-is, or remove the suit photo. Most of the articles that show a suit photo were written several years before his kidnapping charges, and most of those outlets (if they had written an article about him at all) would have used the mugshot photo. Risker (talk) 20:23, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]