Talk:Natalie Merchant/Archives/2015

Marriage

"She married Daniel de la Calle, a Spanish documentary film-maker, in 2003. They have one daughter. [1]"

I'm not sure why this keeps getting deleted. Marriages -- as legal contracts -- are a matter of public record, and she invited a reporter into her home and that reporter discussed her marriage. I don't think there is any need to give the name of her child, who is a minor, but I don't understand the constant deletion of the information that she is married. Almost every biography and obituary I've ever read mentions marital status.

Further, I initially came to the article because I had heard she had recently married but didn't know if it were a rumor or not. The article didn't tell me and so I researched it on Google and added the information with a reference.

Finally, WP:BLP is a guideline, not a policy, and doesn't mention that marriages are not to be discussed. --Jeffrey Henning 19:36, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jeffrey, I agree it's odd that the subject (I'm assuming the anon was her or her family) doesn't want the private details to be discussed given that they've been published. But with BLP, we're meant to err on the side of privacy unless the issue is relevant to the notability of the subject. Whether she is married with children isn't. Perhaps you could split the difference and just say that she is married and the couple has one child. That way, you're not naming or describing the child or husband, who have nothing to do with this bio. Would that work? SlimVirgin ^(talk) 00:37, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

She volunteered personal information about herself in an interview she voluntarily gave to the Guardian newspaper. This[2] This is in addition to the one she gave to the independent above. RupertMillard (Talk) 16:57, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the additional reference. How about adding this sentence to the end of the article...? "She is married and has a daughter.[3][4]" --Jeffrey Henning 20:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it's ridiculous that it should come to this, because it's such a trivial issue but why not give that suggested text a go and see how long it survives? RupertMillard (Talk) 23:26, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, I added it. --Jeffrey Henning 02:20, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

That looks fine, Jeffrey. Good compromise. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 02:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Apparently an anonymous editor insists on replacing the names of the husband and daughter, in contrast to the decision made on this page. Which leads another anonymous editor to remove the information entirely. I have replaced the generic information, but Please be on the lookout for this reversion again. The Wikimedia Foundation has had correspondence on this matter, incedentally (OTRS Ticket Number 2006052210004783). Bastique▼^parler _voir 14:10, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Bastique. Here's the information you entered, for convenience:

 <!-- NOTE TO ARTICLE EDITORS:  Information on Merchant's marriage and child have been done in accordance
 with consensus reached on this article's talk page.  Please do not attempt to replace the following
 personal information -->Merchant is married and has a daughter. <ref>[http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1752946,00.html]</ref>

--Jeffrey Henning 03:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

This "consensus" seems to be a consensus of two people. Who made you God? Her marriage, and the identity of her husband and child, is a matter of public record. Who the hell are you to say we shouldn't put it here? A consensus of two? Go screw yourself and your dictatorial ideas. Last I saw you don't own Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.80.1.134 (talk • contribs) .

Unless we mention that Merchant has a husband, we are excluding important relevent facts. It is making the reader assume that she is notin a gay marriage with a daughter like Sara Gilbert. GilliamJF 06:42, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Co-founded 10,000 Maniacs dispute

I'm inclined to dispute the "co-founded 10,000 maniacs" since the 10,000 Maniacs article states that Merchant was invited to sing a few songs for a previous incarnation of the band. Unless we're talking strict semantics (they didn't change their name until some time later), I don't know if that makes her a co-founder. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.19.233.190 (talk • contribs) 18:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

odd form of censorship

so wikipedia isn't a collection of freely found information on the web? newspapers online can keep their stories there, yet wiki can't source them? i just want to get this straight -- anyone can ask wikipedia to remove info that has already been allowed by the subject to be published in various international media outlets? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.247.22.10 (talk) 05:16, 22 December 2006 (UTC).

If an interested party, the subject of the article or someone representing him or her, decides to contact the Foundation with a good reasoning, the information is modified to fit the petition. I have seen this happen some times, especially when there is a legal threat. While we cannot say there is one here, as you can see above someone contacted Wikipedia, and the editor put a determined text in place of whatever was there. Going against it is basically dismissing whatever happened back then. And yes, anyone can ask Wikipedia to remove information that is verified. In this case, I am guessing they are worried that too much private information is being given for people to know her family's whereabouts. Things like Wikipedia:Office Actions were created to handle high risk articles, so it is an option. -- ReyBrujo 13:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is often useful, and yet also maddeningly weighed down by fanatical, hyperactive and often half-witted edit and revert junkies.

I predict that it will (rightly) lose some of it's prominence over time.

Sean7phil (talk) 20:28, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Family

As a child her mother listened to the beatles. Wow, thats a neat trick considering natalie was born in 1963. The mother raised her and her siblings alone...divorced in 1972. Another neat trick since that would make Natalie ~ 9 at the time of the divorce (and presumed break up of marriage absent other facts). Absent claims of prior abandonment, the raised alone should be removed. Not to mention the fact that natalie was not raised alone but with siblings. Her mother was a single parent (apparently) during Nats mid and late childhood. I guess it might have been established that she did raise her children by herself. (Forget that it takes a community...) This of course implies no child support. Many facts not in evidence or cited? Needs a complete rewrite. And this stuff about her child and husband not being fair game. Well, I don't have any problem with not identifying the child (except its age - her? age) but marriage is public record - I fail to see why Wikipedia backs down on publicly available facts? Maybe hubbie is illegal? Never-the-less. The idea that connections between people are not part of a biography is risible. I suppose if there was some reasonable period of time to censor information affecting personal safety like presidential records - say 5 or 10 years.69.40.242.218 (talk) 03:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)chemist who did indeed listen to beatles as a child (teenager) 10/24/2008.

Extensive rewriting and citing

This article is one big fan page and most of what does seem like neutrally stated facts isn't cited. I'm going to be working on this page all day tomorrow and see if I can improve it(I have nothing better to do tomorrow, lol). If anyone has any hard-to-find citations for things in the article that aren't, please feel free to add them or list them in this section so I can. -LoveLaced (talk) 04:34, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Contraalto To me she sounds more like mezzosoprano. If you compare to Tracy Chapman, who is a real contraalto, you hear the difference in the voices

here, they sing together http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooFs7Cn-oWw&feature=related Tracy Chapman & Natalie Merchant - Where the soul never dies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.218.254.14 (talk) 15:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Removed the reference to a new album in 2009. Suggesting that she may have a new album on the way just because her website is undergoing renovation seems to be purely speculative on the editor's part. --77.249.207.50 (talk) 20:23, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

10,000 Maniacs

It seems that Natalie Merchant's involvement with 10,000 Maniacs has been minimized on both this page and the band page to an inappropriate level. I do not know enough to weigh in on the founding issues, but the way these pages present the relationship is ridiculous. --SVTCobra (talk) 02:11, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I must reiterate that if she was with 10,000 Maniacs from 1981, then it ought to be more than a single paragraph. --SVTCobra (talk) 23:44, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

This page is awful.

This page is awful. It is full of filler and reads like a fan page.Things like this- "the album-cycle saw Merchant flexing her creative muscles in surprising ways." sounds ridiculous and biased. Also there are hardly any sources for almost all the claims in this article. Statements like this- "Jealousy was the third single by Natalie Merchant. In a magazine interview, it was revealed that the song is about Merchant's broken engagement to record company executive David Bither." There are no sources for this and a million other things in this article. I am going to work on this and if I can't find sources I will remove the claims that don't have sources.--68.19.253.42 (talk) 05:14, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

That's the great part about Wikipedia (or any wiki for that matter). If you see something that needs changing, then change it. No need to complain about content around here. EOBeav (talk) 14:48, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Why did she leave maniacs?

I've searched extensively and have yet to find detail on why she would walk away from 10000 maniacs at, arguable, their peak of popularity. Consider how much further the band (and her commercial success) could have gone. Can anyone help fill in the blanks? hmc1350 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.23.91.214 (talk) 15:33, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I read somewhere that she felt she had given all she had to give to that project, and she wanted to embark on a solo career, which incidentally has given her more creative control and more financial profits than her career with 10,000 Maniacs. I think it would be nice to add those reasons to the article, but, of course, they need to reference a source, and I forget where I read that.--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 15:43, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

There had been speculation for years that Merchant had been outgrowing 10,000 Maniacs and that a solo career was inevitable. I remember reading that somewhere back in the late '80's, when I was in college. EOBeav (talk) 01:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Who can be surprised by this? 90% of the time when a lead singer is the best known member of the band, they break away and have a solo career. The days of the Rolling Stones and bands that stick together are long gone. "Show me the money!" is the byword today. 50.193.171.70 (talk) 15:51, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

i agree that it isn't a flattering picture. i've loved natalie merchant for over 20 years and saw a picture of her with grey hair, thought she STILL looks hot with grey hair and i don't like that picture of her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.49.6.225 (talk) 04:24, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Behind Her Given Name

Is there any proof that Natalie Merchant's given name was taken from that of actress Natalie Wood? WikiPro1981X (talk) 01:33, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

The picture is very unflattering

I find the picture of her very unflattering - I would recommend it just be cut, pending finding a better one.86.44.86.254 (talk) 17:36, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Why is this unflattering? Whilst I strive to not objectify women, I see a beautiful woman in this photo. --SVTCobra (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I concur with SVTCobra. I see a beautiful, even vibrant woman in this picture. (Yes, I want her, its true, but I swear that's not clouding my judgment.) 50.193.171.70 (talk) 14:47, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with the original comment; I am assuming that it refers to the primary picture of her used in the article. Natalie, in my honest and humble opinion, is a woman with an amazing inherent natural beauty. And, while many of the pictures of her over the years, both the professionally produced ones along with amateur live-concert shots, have captured that beauty quite well... unfortunately her current article photo does *not*. Can anyone provide one for use? Or suggest one?

Non sequitur

The article states, "she wouldn't allow TV after Natalie was 12".

What the heck is that supposed to mean? 50.193.171.70 (talk) 14:44, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Ancestry

Just noticed this article which directly contradicts the bit about Irish heritage: http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/merchant-of-doom-natalie-s-fears-for-the-modern-world-1.1782066?page=2

"On a lighter note – and Merchant is warm and funny as well as serious – she would like to make it clear that, contrary to Wikipedia, her mother was not Irish. “I am 100 per cent Sicilian,” she says." 202.37.2.69 (talk) 03:34, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Poorly sourced Irish descent removed

As per this interview Natalie Merchant has explained that she is NOT of Irish Descent. She specifically explains that this is a myth that started about 5 years ago (2009), and that she thinks this is a scary aspect of wikipedia (spreading totally false myths). Any edit to this page about her descent is to be consulted with me first. I repeat: she is NOT of Irish descent. THIS IS MISINFORMATION. CONSULT MY TALK PAGE IF YOU DISAGREE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHmM6ZnUKdI#t=173 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grt36YD69kSUCph8lA40sqDbHsrreVxp (talk • contribs) 15:27, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

released the first ever enhanced-CD single

I've just read in Rolling Stone [5] that Natalie Merchant's "Wonder" was the first-ever major-label enhanced-CD single. I don't know how to add references to articles, but thought this would be something worth adding to the article. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 23:37, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

because the night

in the page, it states that bruce springsteen wrote this song. he cowrote it with patti smith, i thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.49.6.225 (talk) 06:59, 12 January 2015 (UTC)