Talk:Nanjing dialect

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Current usage of Nanjing dialect

The article is completely unclear about the current status of any Nanjing dialect. At one point Nanjing dialect is compared to "Pekingese" and many of the references date to 1900 or before. I am happy to learn the history, but what is the current state of it? Colin McLarty (talk) 12:28, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This applies to all Chinese dialects. Locals use them everyday. They only change their pronunciation to Mandarin standard when talking to people from other cities. --2.245.160.188 (talk) 01:32, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality and contradictions

"Another example: 官 and 光 are both pronounced gwan in Nanjing, but in Beijing the latter is guāng. Here again the Standard System retains both spellings as not only spelling the Nanjing sounds more accurately, but also enriching the Nanjing dialect by distinguishing between two words having the same sounds and different meanings."

Here Nanjing dialect is preferred because two words pronounced differently in Beijing are the same in Nanjing.

"In Jianghuai Mandarin, the /n/ initial does not exist. Ancestral /n/ initials are pronounced /l/. The opposite has occurred in Southwestern Mandarin. Northern Mandarin on the other hand, retains distinct /l/ and /n/ initials. Jianghuai, like Northern Mandarin, also distinguishes between /f/ and /ɕ/ initials, while in Southwestern Mandarin, /ɕ/ and /f/ have merged. In Jianghuai, /əŋ/ has "merged" into /iŋ/, while the opposite has occurred in Southwestern Mandarin, Northern Mandarin keeps both as separate sounds."

This passage states many sounds have merged in Nanjing.

"The Peking dialect is phonetically the poorest of all dialects and therefore has the most homophones. This is why it is most unsuitable for scientific purposes."

The Beijing dialect keeps sounds apart which aren't distinguished in Nanjing, but is still phonetically the poorest? --2.245.160.188 (talk) 01:40, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

because there are much more sounds which are distinguished in Nanjing dialect, but same in Beijing(Putonghua). for example:

Nanjing dialect distinguishes [tɕi] [tɕʰi] [ɕi] and [tsi] [tsʰi] [si], but Putonghua merged into [tɕi] [tɕʰi] [ɕi]. So in Putonghua there are not [tsi] [tsʰi] [si]. Nanjing dialect distinguishes [ko] and [kɛ] and Putonghua usually merges them into [kɤ]--柳漫 (talk) 22:12, 5 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The distinctions of sounds are in different aspects. Nanjing dialect represents more sounds especially the sounds that are widely shared in southern China (or other countries with Chinese characters and pronunciations such as Japan). This is why there was a heavy debate on choosing which between National Accent and Beijing Accent as standard Chinese in the early of Republic of China. Although not that simple and easy, the National Accent (國音) contains more abundant sounds, and it also keeps Rusheng (入声, entering tone), which is kept in Nanjing dialect and also widely shared in current various dialects in southern parts of China (in northern parts in the past as well). -Ginlinglang (talk) 06:41, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What language is spoken in Nanjing?

How common are local languages in Nanjing? The Nanjing dialect page does not comment on current usage. Is it common today? How many people in Nanjing speak Putonghua at home? 129.22.76.236 (talk) 13:43, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Generally local people speak local dialect at home. Standard Chinese is spoken in school, in work and on the occasions that there are people with different dialects. With rapid urbanization in the past decades in many Chinese cities including Nanjing, there are a large part of population that is not local. Nanjing dialect may have many changes from ancient times to now. As for current Nanjing dialect, common local city dialect is a little different from that of Lao Chengnan (people living southern parts of the city speaks old Nanjing accent). -Ginlinglang (talk) 05:43, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Besides, the city dialects are also different from dialects in other areas especially southern parts of Nanjing, outside the city, e.g. Lishui and Gaochun, which are classified as today's Wu dialect areas. Putonghua speakers can understand most of common dialect inside the city, but almost can not understand dialect in Gaochun. Actually Putonghua coming from Beijng dialect is a successor of Nanjing Standard Chinese in Ming dynasty. When Beijing was made as capital in Ming dynasty, half of near 100 million people were immigrated from Nanjing, so the accent in Beijing at that time is the same with Nanjing. Although after several hundred years both have changed, the difference is not very big. -Ginlinglang (talk) 06:00, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The first time Nanjing dialect became standard Chinese was in Southern dynasties, and that Nanjing dialect means the official Nanjing dialect (Nanjing Standard Chinese, Jinling Yayin, 金陵雅音), which is the successor of Luoyang Standard Chinese (Luoyang Yayin, 洛阳雅音), and is different from Nanjing local Wu dialect of the time. The Wu yin in Japanese is actually Nanjing Standard Chinese in Southern dynasties, although some changes may happened, and it does not mean Nanjing Wu dialect of the time, and it is named Wu because the area is called Wu, just like Nanjing is called Wujing (吳京, Capital of Wu) in the poem of Li Bai in Tang dynasty. In Sui and Tang dynasties , with the unification of southern and northern dynasties, the new standard Chinese was created in Chang'an based on Jinling Yayin and Luoyang Yayin of the time. The Nanjing standard Chinese in Ming dynasty is the continuation of that standard Chinese. -Ginlinglang (talk) 06:04, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nanjing standard Chinese is not the same with Nanjing local dialect, just like current standard Chinese (Beijng standard Chinese, Putonghua) is not the same with current Beijing local dialect. Although they are highly related, they are not the same thing. Standard accent is for nationwide scholars, schooling, governments, businesses, not just for a local place. -Ginlinglang (talk) 06:14, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above "What language is spoken in Nanjing" related to this article is copied form Talk:Nanjing. --Ginlinglang (talk) 06:22, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]