Talk:NXT Women's Tag Team Championship

Orphaned references in NXT Women's Tag Team Championship

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of NXT Women's Tag Team Championship's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "205Live01222021":

• From WWE 205 Live: Vishwakoti, Anish (January 22, 2021). "1/22 WWE 205 Live results: Anish V's review of Tommaso Ciampa and Timothy Thatcher vs. Tony Nese and Ariya Daivari, and Candice LeRae and Indi Hartwell vs. Gigi Dolin and Cora Jade in Dusty Rhodes Tag Team Classic first round matches". Pro Wrestling Dot Net. Retrieved January 23, 2021.
• From Dusty Rhodes Tag Team Classic: Vishwakoti, Anish (January 22, 2021). "1/22 WWE 205 Live results: Anish V's review of Tommaso Ciampa and Timothy Thatcher vs. Tony Nese and Ariya Daivari, and Candice LeRae and Indi Hartwell vs. Gigi Dolin and Cora Jade in Dusty Rhodes Tag Team Classic first round matches". Pro Wrestling Dot Net. Retrieved January 23, 2021.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 07:43, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Roxanne Perez

Since @OldSkool01: made these changes[1][2] and then @HHH Pedrigree: disagreed[3]. So I want to reach a consensus here. How do you interpret official title history? 1-time or 2-time? We may need to take this to WT:PW too. --Mann Mann (talk) 15:01, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Well, WWE.com includes Perez reign as a different reigns, so OldSkool edit doesn't see right. To include Jade as champion until July 26, the date when Perez vacated the title. Even if this is absurd, wrestling is absurd sometimes. In TNA, Matt Morgan attacked Hernandez and became the only champion. About if it's two reigns or a continuation of her first reign, I'm open to debate. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 16:10, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

But I didn’t list Jade as champion until July 26. The note next to their title reign clearly says she vacated her half of the belts on July 19. Also WWE.com’s title history says there have been 11 different sets of NXT Women’s Tag Team Champions. That means if we are to go very strictly by what WWE.com says, then that means we have to include “vacant” as one of the teams that held the belts because WWE.com includes that in the 11 different title reigns. Sounds dumb, right? Because it is. That’s why it’s absurd to list her as a 2 time champion. How can somebody win a championship again that they already hold? All WWE.com did was point out the days that Cora held her half with Roxanne and then pointed out how many days Roxanne continued to hold the belts without Cora. This really isn’t that complicated. OldSkool01 (talk) 17:06, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

In that case, we can make something. We include Pérez in a separate reign, like my edition, but a note saying this is a continuation of her first reign and not a second reign. PD. WWE also had Cody Rhodes winning the Tag Team title from Cody Rhodes, long time ago... HHH Pedrigree (talk) 20:15, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

The Cody situation from 2008 isn’t the same situation as this. If anything, the Steve Austin tag title reign from 1997 is much more comparable. Austin and Shawn Michaels won the belts on May 26, 1997, but Shawn got suspended on June 8 and was stripped of his half of the titles that same day. Austin continued to be recognized as champion by himself for the next month until him and Dude Love beat Bulldog and Owen on July 14 to start a new title reign. Another situation that’s comparable to Roxanne is when Jericho and Edge won the belts on June 28, 2009. Edge then got hurt and had to forfeit his half of the titles on July 13 while Jericho continued to be recognized as champion by himself until him and Big Show beat Legacy on July 26 to start a new title reign. In both situations (Austin in 97 and Jericho in 09) WWE didn’t recognize Austin nor Jericho as having a new title reign when they were holding the belts by themselves.OldSkool01 (talk) 00:26, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

• Let me ping some active members of WP:PW. @Czello, GaryColemanFan, JDC808, Lee Vilenski, LM2000, McPhail, and Oknazevad: Your opinion? --Mann Mann (talk) 00:57, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
  • I like the idea of following the Austin/Jericho precedents. oknazevad (talk) 02:14, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

  Thanks for the ping. What a mess! On the surface I like idea of replicating the Austin/Jericho situation, but the problem is that WWE doesn't recognise these as separate title reigns.[4][5] For some bizarre reason, WWE have chosen to do this with Perez. With this in mind, I think HHH Pedrigree's suggestion here is best. As it's not a "new" reign I suggest we also grey it out in the way we would for an interim champion. — Czello 07:16, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

• I would see this as no different to Wrestler X and Wrestler Y winning the belts, Wrestler Y getting injured/fired/etc, and Wrestler Z taking over as champion (not that unusual a situation back in the territory days). In this situation, Wrestler X has only had one reign. McPhail (talk) 08:17, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

  • A few other comparable situations. In May 1975 Dominic DeNucci and Victor Rivera won the WWWF Tag Team titles, but in July ‘75 Rivera left the company, leaving DeNucci by himself as tag champion for very brief period before Rivera chose Pat Barrett as his new championship partner. Also in March 1981 The Moondogs (Rex & King) won the WWF Titles, then, in late April, King had passport issues and couldn’t get back into the US. So Rex held the belts by himself until Spot joined him in early May ‘81. DeNucci and Rex weren’t considered as having a new reign when they briefly held the belts by themselves. In fact, when Barrett took over for Rivera and when Spot took over for King, those didn’t count as new reigns either. OldSkool01 (talk) 22:23, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

    • Anycase, the point is that from July 19 until July 26, Jade was not recognized as champion by WWE, but OldSkool's edit doesn't reflect that fact. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 18:04, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm a little late to the discussion but my most recent edits is how this should be handled with the notes box clarifying the situation. --JDC808 ♫ 03:16, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

But that’s not how it should be handled. WWE doesn’t recognize it as a second reign for Roxanne. All you did was list it right back to where it was originally. Also the way I wrote it, it did mention Cora vacating her half of the title on July 19 in the notes section. But I just modified it. Hopefully the way it’s listed now is a good compromise. It shows that Roxanne held it by herself for a week, but not counted as a second reign. Let me know what you think. OldSkool01 (talk) 17:06, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

The official title history page says "Championship Holders: 11". There are 11 rows there and it counts Vacant as a championship holder too which is an obvious error. For now, we better represent Perez's reign as 1 with some clarification about how Jade and Perez vacated their titles. If WWE officially starts to call Perez a two-time champion some day (via WWE website or during a show), I will notify involved users in this discussion. A multi-billion dollar company with a mediocre official website... --Mann Mann (talk) 02:18, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

WWE.com, more specifically their title history section, is run by imbeciles. So many errors. Some dates are wrong, the number of days as champion are wrong for many reigns, sometimes they count the date a title change was taped, sometimes they recognize the date it aired, sometimes they count house show title changes, sometimes they completely ignore house show title changes. It’s all over the place. No consistency. OldSkool01 (talk) 12:10, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Personal feelings aside, WWE does recognize Perez/Jade and Perez by herself as 2 separate distinct reigns. Not saying it isn't wonky, just that it is what it is. It's WWE's title, so if they want to credit Perez with 2 reigns, then that is their prerogative, and we gotta live with it. Not Wiki's place to dictate how a company lists their champions. Vjmlhds (talk) 14:20, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Where does it say on WWE.com that WWE recognizes her as a 2-time champion? Just because they made a seperate entry on their title history column? If we’re gonna be that strict then we have to acknowledge “vacant” also as a title reign because their website clearly lists vacant as a seperate entry on their title history column. If we’re gonna go by exactly what WWE’s title history section says then we can’t pick and choose which reigns are included on WP. If Roxanne is gonna be noted as a 2-time champion, then “vacant” should also be credited as a 2-time champion, because vacant held the title with Roxanne and also held the title by themselves after Roxanne. WWE.com says 11 title reigns, and vacant is one of the 11. That’s what WWE.com says, so we gotta live with it, right? Do you see how ridiculous this is? OldSkool01 (talk) 17:54, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

That's kinda being silly. Vacant obviously means no one holds the title. However Perez/Jade and Perez solo DO count as separate reigns because they have a definitive start date and end date. Their belt, their rules. Wiki can't tell other entities how to handle their own property - that is just getting way out of our lane. Vjmlhds (talk) 18:25, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

But it’s not being silly. I’m just pointing out that you want to go strictly by how WWE.com lists their title histories. You’re reasoning is that every seperate entry on WWE.com’s title history column counts as a new title reign. In that case then you have to include vacant as a title reign. Does that sound absolutely ridiculous? Yes it does. But that’s how it’s listed on WWE.com. No other title has vacant listed anywhere in their title history. This is the first time that vacant is actually listed seperately as its own entry in the title history column. They even specifically say there have been 11 title reigns at the top of the page. And the only way you get to 11 is if you count vacant. It’s their own property. Who are we to tell them how to handle their own property?… Now obviously I’m being sarcastic. I’m in no way advocating for vacant to be listed as an official reign. I’m just pointing out the absurdity, and hypocrisy, of going strictly by what WWE.com says. On one hand you want to go exactly by what they say, and in other cases you don’t. Here’s my point. Just because there is a seperate entry, like vacant, doesn’t mean it’s a new title reign. Go read the synopsis of each of the entries for Cora/Roxanne/vacant. Nowhere does it mention that Roxanne has a seperate reign. It just says that Cora vacated her half and then Roxanne vacated her half because she no longer had a partner. And also reread this whole thread again. There are plenty of examples of this exact scenario happening in the past with tag team champions. OldSkool01 (talk) 23:02, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

What's silly is that we're having such an extensive debate over fictional title reigns. You're trying to make it "real" when it's not. However, I've made an addition to the note that states that WWE.com has her reign as a separate entry but that it's unclear if it's considered an official second reign. --JDC808 ♫ 00:05, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Whether it’s a fictional or real title has nothing to do with it. It’s about consistency and continuity. There are literally thousands of WP pages about fictional subjects. The point is to make sure WP tells an accurate story of the subject. And in the case of WWE, their website makes it really hard to tell an accurate story because of their inconsistency, and sloppiness, with how they run their site. Now with all that said, I have no issue with the update you made to the article. OldSkool01 (talk) 02:49, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

JDC808's revision[6] is fine and I'm OK with it. --Mann Mann (talk) 03:00, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

HHH proposal

Key

No.	Overall reign number
Reign	Reign number for the specific team—reign numbers for the individuals are in parentheses, if different
Days	Number of days held
Days recog.	Number of days held recognized by the promotion
<1	Reign lasted less than a day
+	Current reign is changing daily

No.	Champion	Championship change			Reign statistics			Notes	Ref.
		Date	Event	Location	Reign	Days	Days recog.
8	Cora Jade and Roxanne Perez	July 5, 2022	NXT 2.0: The Great American Bash	Orlando, FL	1	14	14
8	Roxanne Perez	July 19, 2022	NXT 2.0	Orlando, FL	1	7	7	Jade dropped her title belt in the garbage. WWE recognizes this as Perez being a solo champion, but counting it as a continuation of her first reign.

Unification

Just a heads up:

WWE is declaring whoever win the title "unification" match tonight as the Undisputed WWE Women’s Tag Team Champions.

This may well be a case of the champs lugging around both sets of belts and both title lineages remaining independent - just like the Raw and SD tag team titles for the guys.

Something to keep an eye on. Vjmlhds (talk) 17:45, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Completely retired. As per the website, Alba Fyre & Isla Dawn were indeed the final champions. 2600:4040:9DDB:4100:ED75:F5C3:2F54:946A (talk) 01:56, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

even if wwe dont count it, i think ronda and her partner should count as the last champions.Muur (talk) 23:42, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

There's merit to that argument. This can also be cited with a source from ESPN that lists Ronda Rousey and Shayna Baszler as the final champions here. It would be worth to record this on the page since it's notable that the winners in unification matches are usually recognized as the final holders of the title that is subsequently retired. A simple note such as "(not currently recognized by WWE)" could be added next to it. ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 20:08, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

wikipedia actually count secondary sources over primary sources, so espn's source actually coutns above wwe for this sort of thing. if there are more sayign they won the titles, thatd be even more.Muur (talk) 01:14, 7 August 2023 (UTC)