Talk:Mykola Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky

 ++Lar: t/c 17:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Title

I am a bit puzzled with the title of the article. It looks like Mykola Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky is not a notable person and does not deserve a separte article. On the contrary, the fact of symphony hoax is interesting. Actually, the article is about it rather than about Mykola Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky.

What about changing the title?--AndriyK 11:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know whether the person himself is notable or not; however, it's clear that the current article is about the symphony and not the person. So for now, let's split off the part about the symphony into its own article, leaving a stub here. If enough time goes by and the stub is not expanded, then it can be proposed for either merging into the symphony article or deletion. If there are no objections, I intend to make the initial split in 72 hours. Seahen 17:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

• I disagree. To put in my two cents, I think that the person is notable because of the fact that a symphony was attributed to him. The fact that he was only said to have done this doesn't make much difference, as I see it. What matters is that many people believed that he was notable because he wrote a symphony; this makes him notable. Nigelquinine 18:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

• Here's my reasoning for making the article about Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky, and not about the symphony itself. The symphony made ripples upon its discovery, but this was because of the nationality of its purported creator - if the symphony had just been a piece with no name attached to it, or the name of some unknown German or Frenchman, no one would have cared. Furthermore, the print source which I have available (didn't cite because it's a bit outdated - I can add it in if requested) treats the matter of the hoax under the name "Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky". Also, I think that more people remember the name "Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky" in connection with the incident than they remember Goldstein; indeed, I've been having trouble finding out much about him besides the fact that he perpetrated this hoax. Consequently, I think that Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky is notable enough because of the fact that his name was attached to the hoax. --AlbertHerring 20:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The fact that there's nothing further to tell about Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky apart from this supposed symphony should make it clear that the suggested splitting the article isn't called for. The subject here is the hoax. Titles should reflect contents. Any title that reflects the content of this article should be just fine. --Wetman 22:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The idea behind the salami tactic of first splitting, then merging is that it gives the benefit of the doubt that someone might find something else to say about the person. Seahen 03:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we really need to worry about that. Just move the page, rework it to be primarily about the symphony, and the guy's name is still here as a redirect in that unlikely event. --Dhartung | Talk 07:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Done. Seahen 16:56, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

info on symphony

Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky: Symphony No. 21. full score, 22.2 x 30cm 79pp. Moscow, Muzgiz, 1951. 480 copies printed. First and only edition of a forgery which occasioned a major scandal. The perpetrator, violinist-conductor- composer Mikhail Goldstein, was lucky to survive this Stalin- era peccadillo to emigrate to West Germany in 1964. The full story may be found at http://www.panix.com/~checker/ ok.htm Cover is frayed and worn at corners, mended with tape on spine, and has pencilled Roman transliteration of its exclusively cyrillic titling. Interior is clean and tight. $150.00

However

It then becomes a bit confusing to have listed in the 1768 births category "Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky symphony no. 21"... there is a category for works written in a given year (here, around 1949). Taranov- was that Gleb Taranov? (sym 5 in B-flat minor, sym 6 ded to Prokofiev (not Shostakovich. Brainfart...) for strings etc?) or someone else? Rare to find references to him... Schissel | Sound the Note! 15:41, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mravinsky Ovsianniko Kulikovsky.jpg

Image:Mravinsky Ovsianniko Kulikovsky.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 17:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

It serves them right

This is one of the few situations, in my opinion, where the perpetration of a hoax was justified. Clearly the level of antisemitic sentiment that failed to consider a Ukrainian Jew a Ukrainian, yet gave license to the German Composer Beethoven to use Ukrainian themes, warranted the response of a Symphonic fabrication. It is extremely laughable that Goldstein's admission that he wrote the symphony was not taken at face value in the Ukraine and the Soviet Union and, per comments in this article, the symphony is still being taught as genuine in some Ukrainian Conservatories. It is more a reflection on Ukraine and Russia than on the composer, and stands as a monument to the damage hate can do to the hater.

Stephen J. Levine, MD

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