Talk:MyWay Searchbar

Jotti's malware scan

Please elaborate why this would not be proper source [1]. The file scanned is clearly identified with hashes. The scanners used are clearly identified. The date the scan took place is clearly stated. I know it is automated, but so it siteadvisor. --Cybjit (talk) 10:06, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

That source doesn't seem to be completely accurate. The scanned file is indeed a virus, and many of the companies that were listed as "nothing detected" do in fact detect it as a virus. This article almost seems to be advertizing MyWay in my opinion, and attempting to convince users that it is a safe file, when it is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stormstream (talk • contribs) 16:01, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

The article has three references saying that the current version of the MyWay Searchbar is not adware. However, I do agree, along with the sources, that older version of the MyWay Searchbar did display pop-up ads. The source you provided is recent, however, the virus definitions, for the websites in that source that still claim it to be adware, blacklist the older version of the MyWay Searchbar, and therefore still detect the new version as adware. Samwb123^{T (R)-C-E} 18:47, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Will this clear up the confusion?

There may (or maybe not), be some confusion between this site, "myway.com", and the BHO, "MyWay Searchbar" (a.k.a. "MyWebsearch", "MyWay Speedbar", "MyWeb Searchbar", "MyWay Search Assistant").

This site and the BHO are both parts of a larger corporation, IAC Search & Media. A Whois search finds that the Registrant, for this site and the "mywebsearch.com" site (the site the BHO contacts), are the same: IAC Consumer Applications & Portals Inc. One North Lexington Ave White Plains, NY 10601, US [email]dnsmanager@iaccap.com[/email] +1.9145912000 Fax: +1.9145911828

The "mywebsearch" BHO is classified by some as a PUP (Potentially Unwanted Program). This BHO is usually bundled with other PUPs, such as, "FunWebProducts".

The current versions of "Spybot S&D" and "SuperAntiSpyware" detect and remove these PUPs.

To find out if you have these PUPs, you do not need an AV scanner, just look in your "Program Files" folder and if the folders: "FunWebProducts" and/or "MyWebSearch" are there, you got PUPs. (Also, possibly, any of the aliases listed above.)

Stormstream (talk) 17:28, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

You are absolutely right. Also, the older version of the program is adware, whereas the newer version is not. Samwb123^{T (R)-C-E} 18:29, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but I do believe that somewhere in the article, it should be mentioned that many claim it to be a Potentially Unwanted Program. (such as spybot and superantispyware). Stormstream (talk) 02:44, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we can say that the older version is a PUP, however the newer version is not? That's what Sophos says. Samwb123^{T (R)-C-E} 17:33, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Whether or not something is a PUP or not is a personal opinion. I understand that wikipedia doesn't want this, but CURRENTLY, security manufactures such as the ones of Spybot and Superantispyware consider the programs in their databases as PUPs, and automatically remove the program. This seems like something that should be mentioned in the article.

See this source, and click 'More Information. It says, "MyWebSearch is an adware application which, when initially analyzed, was observed to display advertisments when the browser was active. Analysis of recent versions of MyWebSearch show that this functionality is no longer present." Spybot and Superantispyware just haven't removed the MyWay Searchbar from their database, many other utilities have. They added it to the database in the first place because the older version is adware and a PUP. However the newer versions are not, as Sophos says. Spybot and Superantispyware have not removed the MyWay Searchbar from their databases because the older version is adware and a PUP! They don't have to remove it from their database, because the older version is adware, and the end user might have the older version! But just because they still have it in their database does not necessarily mean that the newer version is adware. In fact, Sophos confirms the contrary. Samwb123^{T (R)-C-E} 18:28, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect. Sophos states that it is no longer Adware. It is however, still considered a PUP by many. You have not shown me any sources which state that it is no longer a PUP. But I do agree with you, the newer versions do not include adware. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryzal (talk • contribs) 23:35, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, OK, it is regarded as a PUP. Samwb123^T-C-E 15:46, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryzal (talk • contribs) 20:54, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit Summary (PlantRunner)

Helo, due to what appears to be a current content dispute, I made a couple of edits in this article which should hopefully help resolve the issue. All information I added has been referenced, so please check them before arguing. I added the information about this software being a PUP to the complaints section, as obviously it is a complaint, and one of the biggest ones. Why even have a complaints section if this isn't even there? There is no reference saying that Norton Antivirus supports it, so I removed that. Also, siteadvisor says that the website is safe. They did not check the downloads, so that is an invalid source for that information. The sources 2, 3, and 4, (may change with future edits) claim that it is still malicious, so I adjusted the article accordingly. If you disagree with anything here, please post it here, and I will see if I can change it. Please don't get in an edit war by mindlessly reverting. Thanks. PlantRunner (talk) 14:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Please reference your claims, and why is Norton and International Charter not a reliable source? Besides, all of the content disputes have been settled, so there is no reason to change everything. Samwb123^T-C-E 23:36, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

The sources 2, 3, and 4 claim that the MyWay Searchbar is malicious because the older version was. The current version, as Sophos says, is NOT malware. Samwb123^T-C-E 23:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

You didn't even cite Norton. I didn't change much at all, all I did was add content, which I cited ALL of. If you want to readd the part about Norton and CITE it, then go ahead. Also, I looked at sources 2, 3, and 4, and numbers 2 and 3 claim that the threat still exists, (number 5 doesn't). There is still clearly a content dispute. PlantRunner (talk) 23:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

The ONLY things I removed were unverified. IF you can verify them, then by all means add it to the article. I verified (with sources) EVERYTHING I added. Why? Because beforehand, the article sounded very biased. My edits were an attempt to make it more neutral, adding more information (all verified) about the other side. If you have a problem with any SPECIFIC things I've done, then let me know, and I'll see how I can fix them. Also, your sources contradicted with some of the things you said (malwarebytes and bitdefender). Neither of them say ANYTHING about it no longer being a threat. They are still detecting and encouraging removal for this piece of software AS OF TODAY. PlantRunner (talk) 23:50, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Explaining an edit

Explaining why reverted this edit without getting into an edit war.

Let's take this a little bit at a time.

"that replaces user's default search engine with the one on MyWay's website" is uncited.

"but stopped after getting complaints from customers" also uncited.

"This program is classified as adware by certain websites and anti-malware applications, although later versions along with the current one have been tested by Sophos, to not be malware. It is still regarded as a Potentially Unwanted Program because of the complicated uninstall process (add or remove programs doesn't uninstall it completely), and because it takes up a considerable amount of system resources. Many antivirus companies such as Spybot, Superantispyware, and Panda detect and encourage removal for this software." compared to

"Old versions of the program have been classified as adware by certain websites and anti-malware applications, and has been regarded as a Potentially Unwanted Program. It also has a complicated uninstall process and it takes up a considerable amount of system resources. However later versions along with the current one have been tested by Sophos to not be adware, spyware, nor a virus, and to not function like a malicious program." is very confusing and conflicting. The bottom one, on the other hand, clearly shows what the real issue is, and that is that old versions are adware and newer ones are not, as confirmed by Sophos.

"It is also detected and deleted by most antivirus software." Non-neutral point-of-view, as the issue was already explained above and does not need to be said again.

As you can see, this revert is unnecessary and is not constructive. Samwb123^T-C-E 01:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

---

No.

"that replaces user's default search engine with the one on MyWay's website" is cited in #6 "but stopped after getting complaints from customers" is cited in #2 "It is also detected and deleted by most antivirus software." is a fact, so it is neutral

The reason I am reverting your edit, is because you have not added any cited information, and you have removed cited information. If you would like to rewrite the article, WITHOUT removing any cited information, then I would not revert it. PlantRunner (talk) 23:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

If you want to reword the article, please do so without removing important information. PlantRunner (talk) 00:00, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

I am going to request a third opinion. Samwb123^T-C-E 00:32, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. PlantRunner (talk) 17:24, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

I reworded the section you were complaining about, I added more citations to verify it, and it is less misleading now:

Older versions of the program displayed pop-up advertisements onto the user’s screen and contained an adware function.[2] Sophos, unlike many other antivirus companies [8], says that the most recent build of the MyWay Searchbar does not display pop-up ads and does not contain the adware function.[5] Bitdefender claims that the current versions still contains adware. [9] Another common complaint is the textual ads displayed when searching on the MyWebSearch or MyWay websites. Users have reported an increased amount of ads while using this software.[10] Users have also complained that the MyWay Searchbar tracks what websites they go to, although MyWay claims that the latest version of the Searchbar does not track users' habits.[11] It is regarded as a PUP (potentially unwanted program) by many top security companies. It is also detected and deleted by most antivirus software.[12] PlantRunner (talk) 19:53, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Your third opinion

• PlantRunner, you seem to be pushing a certain POV here. If you are editing with a conflict of interest, you should review the guidelines at WP:COI before continuing.
• Lets be realistic here; no one ever installs one of these things on purpose. Sophos still calls this a "controlled application" which is their politically correct name for not-obviously-malicious stuff that mysteriously appears on people's computers such as this. This is about equivalent to the potentially unwanted program designation, and is not some kind of implication that this isn't still showing up on unsuspecting user's computers.
• Primary sources such as the Sophos one should not be extrapolated upon. Primary sources can only be relied upon for basic facts, not to support wider implications that aren't specifically stated by the primary source. Plantrunner Samwb123 was doing that in his version.
• The searchenginewatch.com reference in the complaints section seems to be inappropriate, it doesn't support the claim that it is attached to. It also doesn't make sense that ads shown only on the myweb website would somehow increase if the bar was installed. You should both check that section because it doesn't seem right.

Hope this helps. Gigs (talk) 05:17, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for giving your opinion. It is helpful, but you mentioned something about me (PlantRunner) "pushing a certain POV". As you stated yourself, "no one ever installs one of these things on-purpose". When I first started editing the article, over the summer, it appeared that the article was completely ignoring the fact that this software is classified as adware and a potentially unwanted program. My edits since then were an attempt to make it more neutral. Could you explain why I'm "pushing a certain POV" rather then pushing to make it neutral? That would be helpful, thanks. PlantRunner (talk) 20:53, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I misread the situation. Please disregard that comment. Gigs (talk) 21:29, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay. Once again, thanks for your opinion. PlantRunner (talk) 02:08, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup

Attempting to clean up this article, I see that a lot of links are either extremely outdated or do not support the statements with which they are connected. In supporting the adware claim, the Bitdefender link[2] is dated February 2008, and the Sophos link[3] specifically does not list the software as adware (I see the argument above about the semantics of "controlled applications", but the fact remains that they have a separate section for adware and this isn't in it). There was also a claim that said users reported increased ads when using the software, but the cited source[4] makes no mention of MyWay. On the whole, the article seems out of date and in need of serious going over, but this seemed like a reasonable starting point. If there are reasonably up-to-date reliable sources (at least when we are purporting to refer to the current version), please feel free to add them or discuss here. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 01:51, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Another one: "Dell used to pre-install this software on some of their commercially sold PCs, but stopped after getting complaints from customers.[5]". Nothing in the link cited supports the claim that Dell stopped installing the software, was considering stopping installing the software, or in fact did anything but defend the software. If there are other reliable sources to support the claim that they removed it for this reason, they need to be cited. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 19:37, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree that this article could use some cleaning up now. I'll check the databases of some antivirus and see if it is still classified as adware or a PUP. I'm not the one who added the bit about dell, so I'm not sure about that. I'll see if I can find some sources about that as well. PlantRunner (talk) 00:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Just wanted to clear something up: some of the citations that were originally used may not have said anything about myway, but SmileyCentral, Popular ScreenSavers, MyWebSearch, and MyWay are all the same program. It is just known by all these different names. PlantRunner (talk) 01:05, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Added more citations. Not very thorough because I was in a rush. Will come back to it later. PlantRunner (talk) 01:14, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

My edit added to the "complaints" section, didn't mean to be too biased and will look for citations claiming that the software is safe. It appears that the status of the software is still disputed, and considered adware by some, but not considered adware by others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PlantRunner (talk • contribs) 01:18, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

There are a lot of problems there. First of all, amateur opinions that are not subjected to editorial review (such as posts in discussion forums) are not reliable sources. For all we know, those are 11-year-old kids with no professional knowledge of what spyware is; they got in trouble for putting a toolbar on mom and dad's computer, and now they're mad. People write all kinds of crazy things on the Internet, but it doesn't make them true.

Second, a lot of the sources supporting the idea that it's adware are second-rate anti-virus companies; not only do they have a vested interest in declaring everything spyware and then offering to help you fix it, they are also not as reliable as the major companies (and should not be given undue weight). Contrary to popular belief, the policy of neutrality does not mean all viewpoints must be equally represented. Wikipedia should not present a dispute as if a view held by a small minority deserved as much attention overall as the majority view. If we're making negative claims about a company, we need to be really, really vigilant about having quality sources to back them up. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 23:29, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I understand your concerns. I think the following are valid citations: Malwarebytes, a major antivirus company. Bitdefender is another major company, according to AV-comparatives, it has few false positives. Sunbeltsecurity is a minor "second-rate" antivirus program as you put it, so we can remove that. PChell is a website commonly used to solve problems with computers. It does not state that this software is adware. I used this to cite that it has a complicated uninstall process. Sophos is definitely a reliable source, however, they state that the newer version is not adware, which is why the article says that its status as adware is disputed (because bitdefender and malwarebytes, first-rate software, says it is). Panda Security it somewhere in between first-rate and second-rate, and says that it is adware. URLvoid, hosts-files, virustotal, and mywot says that it is suspicious, I may remove mywot because it is based on user ratings, however, urlvoid and virustotal scan the website and downloads with other software to get their results. Hosts-file, on the other hand, is a well known database. PCHealth may also be removed, since it is "second-rate". Techimo is a forum which may be removed. Myway, is the official website, so of course that one is a good citation.

I am definitely open to revising this article, as I agree that it may be unbalanced and incomplete. I just want to make sure that we don't completely turn the tables and make it unbalanced the other way. PlantRunner (talk) 18:20, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

If you do some research, you can see that there is an overwhelming number of complaints from users, even if many are on discussion forums. The high number of complaints about how this software acts like a virus (even on microsoft's official website) should be mentioned in the article, even if certain sources aren't valid. There are certainly many valid sources out there, even if not all of the ones in the article are valid. PlantRunner (talk) 23:35, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, haven't had much time for editing this week. A couple of notes:

• Malwarebytes does not list mywebsearch as adware/malware (at least, not on the link provided). When I downloaded the toolbar, a search of my computer with the Malwarebytes software, does return results for what it calls "registry keys". I'm not sure what that implies (I'm not a computer security expert, and looking at the Wiki article didn't shed much light for me) but still, no specific label of adware or viruses.
• Bitdefender does not list mywebsearch as adware/malware, just says it installs a toolbar (which, since it is a toolbar, is fairly obvious).
• Sunbelt lists it as very low risk and doesn’t suggest solutions other than “ignore”.
• Is PC Hell legit? Is it up to date? The “hijackthis.com” link is dead, so I wonder how old this write-up is. Same for all the related product articles on PC Hell.

Your thoughts? Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 03:38, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's been two weeks, so I've gone ahead and removed the dubious material. I think there's still enough in the "complaints" section to cover the history of problems, without making unsupported claims that the current version is adware/spyware. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 14:36, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Looks good. Well, much better and cleaner than it was. PlantRunner (talk) 19:58, 13 February 2012 (UTC)