Talk:Municipal authority (Pennsylvania)

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Pennsylvania Mid‑importance

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Question about the lead

I am not sure what is meant by"However, these entities lack autonomy and are, in fact, dependent agencies." There are some ambiguous pronouns in that sentence. Also, how are they dependent? Money? Control?--Blargh29 (talk) 06:24, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I got rid of it. (I've been working on related articles, and I question what it said, whatever THAT might have been.) ;-) Lou Sander (talk) 12:33, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The turgid sentence removed was "Analogous units in other states are sometimes called special districts. However, these entities lack autonomy and are, in fact, dependent agencies ^[1]."

What is being addressed in this admittedly difficult statement is whether the "entity" is controlled by the municipality, or not controlled by the municipality but maybe created and having its mission or purpose defined by the municipality. In Philadelphia, there are several Special Services Districts created by Philadelphia City Council by an ordinance which is signed by the mayor, with the jurisdiction defined by the ordinance and even the particular directors of the District named in the ordinance. After that ordinance is adopted, then the District functions independent of the government of the City of Philadelphia. In other states, the situation may be quite different, with special districts created without the municipal government or governments being involved. Perhaps there is a way to express this difference of who creates or controls such an entity without the turgid prose that was deleted. Also, maybe this distinction belongs elsewhere in this article than the lede. --DThomsen8 (talk) 14:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See Frankford Special Services District of Philadelphia and its reference.^[2]--DThomsen8 (talk) 14:21, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

^ 1997 Census of Governments, Government Organization, U.S. Census Bureau, page x,footnote 2
^ Savage, Councilman (2007-12-06). "Amending the Articles of Incorporation of the Frankford Special Services District of Philadelphia, a Municipal Authority, by changing the number of board members of the Authority, naming board members to the Authority and providing for their terms of office". Philadelphia City Council bill database. Philadelphia City Council. Archived from the original on 2009-11-29. Retrieved 2009-11-29.

IMHO, the article is about something specific to Pennsylvania, and doesn't need to talk about similar entities elsewhere. Also IMHO, it doesn't need to cover the existing and possible fine differences between various Municipal Authorities. It's an encyclopedia article, not a legal treatise. Lou Sander (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the problem. Municipal authorities in Pennsylvania are in fact dependent agencies because of limitations on their autonomy. I forget offhand what that limitation is. Anyway, they are classified as special districts for data collection purposes. There used to be a footnote in the Census of Governments publication explaining this, but it was removed in 2002(even though the classification had not changed). The footnote last appeared in 1997 on page X of the introduction to Government Organization, 1997 Census of Governments. Gadickson2002 (talk) 14:45, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Municipal authority (Pennsylvania) says "In its 2002 Census of Governments, the U.S. Census Bureau listed 1,885 municipal authorities in Pennsylvania." Pennsylvania Municipal Authorities Association says there are more than 2,600 authorities across Pennsylvania. There is something peculiar going on with these numbers.

See | DCED

1) The link above isn't working for me. 2) The article is about a Pennsylvania subject. IMHO the encyclopedia should accept Pennsylvania counts, if there's a difference between them and others -- the others have to fit Pennsylvania entities in with those in 50 other states. Lou Sander (talk) 18:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This source from the state government should provide answers to all of these questions: [1]. --Blargh29 (talk) 20:06, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The states and the Census Bureau have different definitions of "special district." Furthermore, does anyone know for sure if PA considers the municipal authorities to be special districts? It should be made clear whether this entry is the fed's or the state's definitions and count. As for the difference between the state count and the federal count - the PA register contains many inactive entities and a few that were not created under the municipal authority law. Gadickson2002 (talk) 20:24, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Interstate Compact Agency?

I am removing this section because it (1) does not belong under municipal authorities and (2) it is incorrect - many types of entities have "authority" as part of their name. Gadickson2002 (talk) 20:30, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] 1997 Census of Governments, Government Organization, U.S. Census Bureau, page x,footnote 2

[2] Savage, Councilman (2007-12-06). "Amending the Articles of Incorporation of the Frankford Special Services District of Philadelphia, a Municipal Authority, by changing the number of board members of the Authority, naming board members to the Authority and providing for their terms of office". Philadelphia City Council bill database. Philadelphia City Council. Archived from the original on 2009-11-29. Retrieved 2009-11-29.

[1]

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