Talk:Multiverse (Marvel Cinematic Universe)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Mainspace

This draft is now done in my opinion. Are there any objections/concerns before I move it to the mainspace? InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:11, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Nope, seems good in my opinion. Very well detailed. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 05:21, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Nope. Good work! — SirDot (talk) 15:53, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Y Moved. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Add Eddie Brocks's reality to Notable Realities?

Should we add the SSU within the list of notable realities, as we did with Peter-Two and Peter-Three's realities? Especially given that in No Way Home, Eddie and Venom were shown in the MCU and then transported back. So I'd say the SSU is indeed a notable reality. Hummerrocket (talk) 21:30, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

It's not notable (its only notable character is featured in a cameo). — SirDot (talk) 23:18, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

To avoid overcluttering the list, we should only be including realities which are actually crucial to the film/series (e.g. Peter-Two and Three, Earth-833) or impact other MCU properties (e.g. 2012 Time Heist with Loki, 2014 Time Heist with GotG 3). InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:35, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Zombie Universe

Given it will be the setting of an entire series (Marvel Zombies), should we add the zombie universe to the notable realities? AxGRvS (talk) 17:00, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:05, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

 Added. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:52, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

X-Men universes

Given the reveal of Jackman reprising his role as Wolverine in Deadpool 3 but not the one in 2029, and given Deadpool will come to the MCU, should we include the Foxverses (pre-DOFP, post-DOFP, DP2 and Logan) in the “Other media” section? I realize it’s not 100% confirmed but Deadpool’s migration to the MCU is already some solid evidence. What do you think? MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 22:39, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Like I said at Template talk:Marvel Cinematic Universe § Logan, it has weird implications but best to wait. — SirDot (talk) 22:45, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Even if they're confirmed to be from the multiverse, we won't be adding any of the X-Men films to "In other media" because the MCU multiverse never appeared in those films. Notice we aren't including Tobey and Andrew's films either. InfiniteNexus (talk) 02:47, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Table

@InfiniteNexus: what is the logic behind removing this? It doesn’t try to duplicate everything else (if not it elaborates a little bit). Plus, the page for the Marvel Comics universe has a table for this reason, and DC even has its own page dedicated to this with several tables laid out with this. Additionally the marvunapp website is actually the handbook that Marvel published that was the originator of the original Earth-199999 name for the MCU. It’s the only source of the designations that they have from the book that’s widely available to see and use. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 19:42, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Most of the information in the table is already stated in prose; prose is generally preferred to tables on articles. As for marvunapp, editors have tried to use it to cite universe designations before, so I've looked into this. There is no evidence that the website is affiliated with Marvel Entertainment, it just seems to be a fansite maintained by these random people. http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/ says: The entire purpose of this site is to stimulate interest and supply information about the vast universe Marvel has created (and to have fun). All characters mentioned or pictured are ™ and © 1941-2099 Marvel Characters, Inc. All Rights Reserved. If you like this stuff, you should check out the real thing! Visit the Official Marvel Site. http://www.marvunapp.com/master/mastguid.htm#Disclaimer says: This is my info list which I've accumulated over a few decades of collecting. Is it complete? No. However, it is quite extensive, and probably actually covers over 95% of every single character seen in the MU. And finally, this site has received virtually no third-party coverage and is only cited by the Marvel Databse fan wiki. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:41, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

"Howard the Duck" (1986)....

This movie should be mentioned in the article about the multiverse, because Howard came from another universe. Mlauzon (talk) 19:12, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

That movie is not part of the MCU, so it is not part of the MCU multiverse. Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:37, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

@Trailblazer101 I'm going to be the devil's advocate, because Marvel did have him in GotG, that makes him part of the MCU. 2001:56A:FCE2:DD00:61C1:41C2:2AAD:648 (talk) 01:07, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Howard the Duck is, yes, but the MCU version is unrelated to the one in the movie. -- Zoo (talk) 01:40, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Across the Spider Verse screwing things up

So apparently Sony decided to fuck with canonity and referenced the MCU by calling it 199999. Obviously this should be treated as WP:SYNTH since MULTIPLE marvel studios executives have claimed this is their own 616. Because I know this is gonna cause a lot of fanboy IPs to start peddling this page and changing the designation I put in a request for indef semi protection to ward this off since I have a feeling it will be a very long process trying to sort it out. Premature maybe? Yes. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 07:44, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree that there are enough sources from within and outside the MCU to continue labelling it as 616. However, the Spider-Verse film series now earns its place in the "Other Media" section of the page, as something only tangentially connected to Marvel studios' multiverse depictions. Having this inclusion in this section should also hopefully limit some of the reactionary editing that you are concerned about. Mitchy Power (talk) 08:28, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

It's not actually a mistake. The MCU (or MCU multiverse) in the larger scheme/real-world aspect of Marvel's "omniverse", it is Earth-199999. Within that, the fictional denizens of the MCU can refer to their main earth as Earth-616. Each one is not incorrect, it's just how you need to look at it. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:29, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

I understand but Feige himself and Nate Moore who is a producer on these films has referred to it as such. I would think that supersedes any 199999 mention. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 16:36, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

This doesn't need to be an "either or" situation. Both can be correct, depending on the context. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:37, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Frankly, I think the section should be labeled "Earth-616 / Earth-199999". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:56, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Given it is referred to as both, I think that header should reflect it. Trailblazer101 (talk) 15:06, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Otherwise we'll probably just have editors constantly changing it back and forth. -- ZooBlazer^talk 16:45, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, considering it has been named both designations. — SirDot (talk) 22:04, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

I disagree with this change, strongly. Within the Marvel Comics multiverse, the main universe is Earth-616 and the MCU is Earth-199999. Within the Spider-Verse films, the MCU is Earth-199999 and — wait for it — Peter B. Parker's universe is Earth-616. Neither the Marvel Comics nor the Spider-Verse films are canon to the MCU, so they can call the MCU whatever they want, but in the end only what Marvel Studios says is actually canon to the MCU. All the Spider-Verse stuff belongs in the "In other media" section, and nothing in those films affect the MCU in any way. Furthermore, in the eyes of Marvel Comics, Earth-199999 would theoretically be a multiverse-within-a-multiverse that includes all the alternate universes we've seen in the MCU, so it would be inaccurate for us to label it as a singular universe/timeline. To prevent further disruption, we can add hidden notes and perhaps an FAQ. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:05, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Mhm. I admittedly didn't put it fully into perspective. That makes more sense. I think an FAQ and hidden notes would be beneficial as to prevent further confusion. 199999 and 616 can and do coexist, and the MCU and MCU multiverse are indeed two separate things. The MCU is essentially a collection of multiverses, or whatever you want to call it internally. As I saw the Earth-19999 redirect, I became skeptical of essentially saying it and Earth-616 were one and the same. Given it is a Sony property using a term only really addressed by the comics, it makes sense that they would obviously not supersede Feige and what has been established in the MCU as fact. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:31, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

In this case I think it is better to stick to what’s been explicitly referenced to exist within the MCU multiverse, which is the prime timeline (616), 838, the Raimiverse, the Webbverse, the SSU, What If and the Disney Parks. This might sound like FANCRUFT, but it’s better to assume that the Spiderverse multiverse likely had a universe labeled 199999 that had almost the same events as No Way Home occur. Unless Sony decides to fuck things up further at the end of this film by throwing a Kang or multiverse saga reference (in which case some major changes would be needed) that’s what should (and we have been) stick. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 05:14, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

I have adjusted the heading and added the /FAQ. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:19, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

There was already a consensus of three between @Favre1fan93:, @ZooBlazer:, and @SirDot: for keeping "Earth-616 / Earth-199999" versus the consensus of three that was @InfiniteNexus, @Trailblazer101, and @MarioProtIV to just have "Earth-616". That's three against three, 3 = 3, meaning there is not consensus (yet). I would support @Favre1fan93:, @ZooBlazer:, and @SirDot:, bringing it up to four against three, but there is still room for discussion. Don't get ahead of ourselves, anyone. 103.104.117.205 (talk) 10:01, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

The FAQ can and should remain, and it is correct. It is as simple as the Sider-Verse does not override what was established for by Marvel Studios. The wording can always be adjusted dependent on what others' input is. Trailblazer101 (talk) 12:51, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I support just having the 616 plust the FAQ rather than the 616 / 199999, as that designation comes from what's essentially an outside source and overcomplicates things based on InfiniteNexus' reasoning. —El Millo (talk) 15:55, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

The FAQ is definitely a better idea than having Earth-616 / Earth-199999. Hopefully it keeps edit wars and confusion down. -- ZooBlazer^talk 16:32, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

IP, please realize that consensus on Wikipedia is not determined by the number of raw votes. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:40, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Agents of SHIELD

I stopped watching Agents of SHIELD after the fourth season, so I'm clueless as to whether Season 5 or Season 6 is the one that involves alternate timelines and the multiverse. Can someone who did watch those two seasons chime in? InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:24, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

I watched but I don't remember much. But I've been working on the Thanos and Blip articles and people have added info to those relating to SHIELD. It looks like season five dealt with Earth being destroyed while Thanos was in Wakanda and then six was set a year later but still alternate timelines as there was no Blip/snap. -- ZooBlazer^talk 18:32, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

It has been a minute myself, but both sort of dealt with multiverse-related stuff. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:29, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

The season 5 article may be helpful, I know I personal feel off on editing the sixth, but came back around for the seventh. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:32, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

I've restored the season 6 stuff and adjusted the wording. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Notable realities

I think we need to establish some sort of threshold for inclusion, or else we risk getting ourselves an overly long and WP:FANCRUFTy list. I'm thinking something along the lines of "if the universe or its variants are featured in more than one project". InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:49, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure we need individual headers for each reality and we could probably just convert it into a bulleted list and/or a few paragraphs breaking down some details. Under that threshold, only Earth-616 and the two Time Heist realities would be noted. I believe if a reality is prominently featured it can be noted, although realities such as the other Spideys were not directly shown on-screen in the MCU except very briefly when they were transported, and those sections just divulge character plot details rather than the universe themselves. I agree we want to avoid being fancrufty and too long. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:36, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Meaning the alternate realities featured in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. can be mentioned too. 103.104.117.205 (talk) 00:25, 7 May 2023 (UTC)