Talk:Mudslinger (bull)

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Notability

Chris troutman (talk · contribs)

Mossy Oak Mudslinger meets N per Wikipedia:Notability_(sports)#Rodeo

The Professional Bull Riders (PBR) is one of the top ten fastest growing sports in the U.S. Every year, a World Champion Bull is crowned at the PBR elite Built Ford Tough Series World Finals, along with a World Champion Bull Rider. This bull is an elite animal athlete, the cream of the crop and the #1 bull in the world. Only the best bulls make the PBR, surpassing the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association and Championship Bull Riding, among others. Many of these champions have been selected by the PBR for the Professional Bull Riders: Heroes and Legends Celebration Brand of Honor. This Brand of Honor is the equivalent of a hall of fame.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/2016/01/21/professional-bull-riders-pbr-has-created-the-most-authentic-sponsorship-platform-in-sports/#7b132a4d3970 PBR now draws more than 3 million fans over 100 global live events on an annual basis, with television broadcasts reaching more than half a billion households in 40 countries and territories around the world.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201108/bucking-bull-king-cowboys Bulls are now animal athletes who earn significant money and have as many or more fans. Bulls can be worth 6 figures, with recently retired PBR bull Bushwacker making it to $1 million at the height of his career.

http://time.com/4301509/most-influential-animals/ To show the recognition of bucking bulls in the world now, the 2015 PBR World Champion Bull Long John was selected by Time Magazine as its #50 Most Influential Animal of 2016 (out of 100).

Other existing hall of fame bulls (PBR Heroes and Legends: Brand of Honor) bulls who have WP articles are three-time world champion Bushwacker who was worth $1 million at the height of his career. Three-time world champion Little Yellow Jacket. Two-time world champion Dillinger. Two=time world champion Bones. Bull Red Wolf. One time World Champion Chicken on a Chain.

See Professional Bull Riders: Heroes and Legends

dawnleelynn^(talk) 03:40, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Dawnleelynn: Yes, I overlooked NRODEO. My mistake. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:40, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Chris troutman I have a great group of editors mentoring me over in WikiProject Equine thankfully Atsme and others. No harm, no foul. I appreciate you saying so, thanks. You were just doing what you thought was best for the encyclopedia, same as me. Personally, I empathize with anyone who patrols new articles, there's just so much to know to do it. Happy Trails! dawnleelynn^(talk) 15:52, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Working on Puffery

Atsme Thanks for acknowledging the the first edit I took through this article. I plan to do some more swipes through this article. Even just reading through now, I see more puffery and peacock that can be edited. :) dawnleelynn^(talk) 01:32, 6 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Very happy with your progress, Dawn - keep up the good work!! ^{Atsme📞📧} 02:16, 6 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notability again

@Ponyo: Please see this talk page regarding the notability of the bull. He is covered by a subject specific guideline as mentioned herein. Also other links. He is completely notable. dawnleelynn^(talk) 19:18, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please reread my edit summary and the section below. This has nothing to do with the notability of the bull.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 19:23, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Quotes removed

I removed these quotes from the article as there is not indication as to why the individual being quoted (i.e. Cody Whitney) is notable enough to have their opinion included in the article. In addition, the source for the quote is a blog which does not meet WP:RS. There are many quotes regarding notable individuals commenting on Mudslinger already included in the article and I don't see any reason to include another one that is so poorly sourced.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 19:21, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Dawnleelynn: You continues to restore the disputed content based on the incorrect assumption that the removal is related to Mudslinger's notability, which is not disputed. The article already includes multiple quotes from notable individuals regarding the bull's legacy. It is WP:UNDUE to include additional quotes from an individual of undetermined notability that is poorly sourced to a blog on a website selling pain relief medication. These are the same reasons it was removed by Money emoji previously. Perhaps you can explain what unique perspective you believe the two Cody Whitney quotes provide that are not covered by the many other quotes already in the article? If there is a unique perspective, a reliable source will also need to be found for the quotes to be included. -- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 19:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ponyo: I understand your intent. Regarding money emoji, I could do the same and call in a mentor (or two). In fact, though, another editor of your experience level has already edited the article and not that long ago, Nikkimaria (she's an longtime FA writer and reviewer). After creation, I had montanabw (my mentor) and Atsme review the article. Atsme is an experienced rodeo professional and she knows more about the stature of these individuals and bulls than 99 percent of the editors on Wikipedia. It's always interesting when driveby editors know more about our area than than those of us who work in it regularly here and in real life.

So, is Cody Whitney really not notable enough? You don't even know where to look.

PRCA Cowboy Profile - Cody Whitney
4 NFR Qualifications
Career Earnings $517,531

Wow, he's actually notable to enough to have his own article. Four qualifications to the NFR see NRODEO.

dawnleelynn^(talk) 19:52, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

dawnleelynn, I'm concerned that you appear to have framed this as a "us" vs. "them" debate as opposed to a simple discussion regarding the inclusion of poorly sourced content. We don't "call in" people to support us in discussions. You labeling me as a "driveby editor" and your comment "Is Cody Whitney really not notable enough? You don't even know where to look" is condescending and unnecessary. Of course I know where to look. I've spent over 10 years gathering reliable sources through online and offline research for articles with a concentration on biographies of living people. I understand that you created this article and feel protective over its content, however the editorial process is ever evolving and changes in an article you wrote will naturally take place over time. This does not negate your efforts in creating the article in any way or insinuate any bad faith on your part. It's how Wikipedia works.

With regard to the crux of my concerns regarding the inclusion of the two quotes that have been removed, I don't see where you've addressed the question "can explain what unique perspective you believe the two Cody Whitney quotes provide that are not covered by the many other quotes already in the article?" or the unreliability of the source.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 20:31, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As I said before, Real Time Pain Relief isn't just some company running a blog. They were a legitimate tour sponsor who got their information from the PBR.

See these links:

Announcing PBR Real Time Pain Relief Velocity Tour | Real Time Pain Relief

Real Time Pain Relief Velocity Tour Announces Schedule For First Half Of 2018

dawnleelynn^(talk) 20:28, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is a blog post on a company website; Real Time Pain Relief being a tour sponsor doesn't make the contributor who wrote the post reliable. If you can drill down into the sources used by the individual who posted the story to find who originally published the quotes then you may find a reliable source.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 20:38, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'm a bit overwhelmed now. I need a break. I'll answer later. But, in the meantime, I did what I should have done in the beginning. I looked at the page in question. I mean really looked at it. I have not looked at it in quite awhile. And there, at the bottom is what is needed. Citations of a sort. From three reliable sources... So, apparently they took their information from the Professional Bull Riders, ProBullStats, and the ProRodeo Hall of Fame websites.

Quote:

Citations

Pbrnow.com
Probullstats.com
Prorodeohalloffame.com

They are a bit old, as pbrnow is just pbr.com. dawnleelynn^(talk) 20:53, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm leaving soon on an extended long weekend, but I can see if I can find the original quote in those sources that can be used as a reliable source in this article. In an ideal world we would also have an article on Cody Whitney so that our readers would be able to know why he is being quoted alongside other riders who have Wikipedia articles. -- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:13, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for fixing my indents; no I don't mind at all. Also, thanks for the olive branch. I do have a tendency to get defensive, and I'm always working on it. Yes, I would prefer to work together going forward. It's a new concept to me regarding the policy you quoted about the notability of sources you quote. I will study it. I did try to search for the quote from Whitney but only found sites that have copied Wikipedia so far. But that doesn't mean you won't find one of course (I mean that in a good way). Also, money emoji actually only found one quote from RTPR. It had the ref code of <ref name="realtimepain"/>.. The original citation with its own quote is still in the article LOL. It's the only quote from Justin McBride, who is notable for sure, only the source is in question: "McBride said, "If you didn't mess him up, you were going to win first." Couldn't find that one in search either, in fact the Google search didn't fill one page. Anyway, enjoy your trip. It can wait. dawnleelynn^(talk) 21:56, 1 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ponyo, just so you know, all of the bull articles had an admin editor come through here like a freight train once already and remove a bunch of quotes from them. So, maybe you can understand I don't think it's very funny that it seemed to be happening again. And it got started just like this time. A novice editor saying that quotes were copyright violations. Deja vu!! dawnleelynn^(talk) 03:53, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dawnleelynn, I removed "PBR and PRCA bull rider, Cody Whitney said, "I got on Mudslinger four times, and I rode him twice. Each time felt different than the time before." He also stated that Mudslinger is, "Hands down one of the rankest bulls I ever got on, you had to have your game on point to ride that bull."" on this article because the "PBR and PRCA bull rider, Cody Whitney said" and the "He also stated that Mudslinger is," were copied directly from the source. Yes, it is minor, but it's still a copyvio and should be rephrased to something like "Cody Whitney said" and "Whitney added" if it is to be reinserted. I'll add that I'm currently trying to clear out your CCI out of respect for you as a contributor, as, unlike many people listed at CCI, you are an actual contributor who has greatly helped the project out. 💵Money💵emoji💵^💸 15:39, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Money emoji Ok, I'll add that Nikkimaria, who opened the CCI, has been working on clearing out my CCI for awhile now. She reviewed this article on Mossy Oak Mudslinger already and many other ones. She also reviewed Bodacious. But yes, I can see how another review might find another thing; it's a very long article. Ok, we can all miss something sometimes. My CCI has a list at the bottom that Admin lazyges has said once it is cleared, he will close the case. Because Nikkimaria has not kept up with marking all the ones she has reviewed, I created a sandbox that is a complete list of all the articles that have already been reviewed. Also, montanabw reviewed some. I have put their name next to the articles they have reviewed. It's at User:Dawnleelynn/Article Progress. You can see that it's very close to being completed now.

Also, I didn't see the text in between the quotes as being the same until now, my bad. But now Ponyo wants those quotes removed anyway per saying they are backed by an unreliable source. There is also another quote in there by the same source.

Thank you for understanding when I got upset. I get it now. I really appreciate your attitude now. Thank you for taking into account that I just mostly had some unintentional issues of close paraphrasing and that most of my contributions were: lots of wikignoming and other wiki work, besides the article work. For example: this year I have only created about 7-8 articles to date; I have done lots of wiki work though. Anyway, the CCI has been open awhile as I'm sure you can tell. I know there's a movement over there to get them all updated or closed. It would be nice to get the monkey off my back. What list are you working from? dawnleelynn^(talk) 16:10, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dawnleelynn, I'm working from Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/Dawnleelynn. Over the last few months I've been attempting to clean out the massive backlog at CCI; Yours is fortunately much less terrifying than ones like this, where there's 1000s of articles listed and the contributor often plagiarized from offline sources. Anyways, thank you for your kind response and understanding, I should have your CCI cleared out in the next few days. 💵Money💵emoji💵^💸 16:50, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]