Talk:Muaythai at the 2005 Asian Indoor Games

Requested move 30 May 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Result:
Not moved. See consensus below to continue with the current titles of these articles. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; good health to all! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 09:28, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

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• Muaythai at the 2005 Asian Indoor Games → Muay at the 2005 Asian Indoor Games
• Muaythai at the 2007 Asian Indoor Games → Muay at the 2007 Asian Indoor Games
• Muaythai at the 2009 Asian Martial Arts Games → Muay at the 2009 Asian Martial Arts Games
• Muaythai at the 2009 Asian Indoor Games → Muay at the 2009 Asian Indoor Games
• Muaythai at the 2013 Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games → Muay at the 2013 Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games

– In according to the Association of IOC Recognised International Sports Federations, Muaythai, Muay, Muay Boxing, Thai Kickboxing, Muay Boran, Muay Aerobic, and Wai Kru are the name of sports that are governed by IFMA, so you can use Muay or Muaythai for the article depended on the official document from the organizing committee in each edition. In according to the Olympic Council of Asia constitution (Chapter 3, Article 73), it uses the name of Muay instead of Muaythai. However, its webpage uses both Muay and Muaythai and Doccuments of ABG2014 & ABG2016 & AIMAG2017 & AIMAG2021 (only 4 editions of OCA events that use Muaythai instead of Muay) use Muaythai instead of Muay. Muay is the alternative name of muaythai, by deleting the world of "thai", for avoiding the dispute of Mainland Southeast Asia martial arts between Southeast Asian nations. I didn't agree that someone change the past name with the current name without official references of that games. The name of the article should rely on the official references, not someone's opinion.

References

– Dinnerbrone (talk) 09:13, 30 May 2022 (UTC) — Relisted. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 06:21, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose - It's not even clear what the nominator trying to say! he once renamed pages by copying/pasting their contents claiming the sport's name officially changed from Muay to Muaythai in 2017 while there is nothing about this case in this request. I can't see a source backing up this claim. OCA uses both words Muay and Muaythai in its articles but the sport's name was always Muaythai for the international federation. it was always International Federation of Muaythai Associations even long before 2017. I can't see a reason to rename pre 2017 competitions to "Muay" and keep the rest as "Muaythai". they should have the same name. Sports2021 (talk) 11:43, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

– I wrote the organizing committee use muaythai instead of muay in 2017 edition (in Ashgabat Games for AIAMAG; I gave you the reference that I mentioned before) not implied that IFMA change its name in 2017. Muaythai was coined before 2017, and was discussed in SEAGF meeting in 2007, but Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia was opposed!!! (I gave you the SEAGF minute and Thai news). Muay is the alternative name of muaythai so Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia can participate in the games, especially SEA Games. But since 2016, IFMA is recognized by IOC, and the organizing committee of the OCA events used muaythai instead of muay since then!!! In the AIMAG 2013, the organizing committee still used muay!!! youtube I didn't understood you that you can't see a source backing up this claim I gave you the OCA constitution, AIMAG2017&2021 Handbook, ARISF website, and SEAGF minute. I think you didn't read my resource. You also moved the page "Synchronized swimming" to "Artistic swimming" in Asian Games articles without reference too, if you argued that I renamed pages by copying/pasting their contents and opposed me. --Dinnerbrone (talk) 16:03, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Comment - You just keep repeating the same thing. there is no source that indicates the international federation (which is responsible for the sport) changed its name in 2017. the sport was called Muaythai long before that. Sports2021 (talk) 16:15, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

– The name of this sport has never been changed by IFMA since its establishment. Because Muaythai is the same sound as "มวยไทย" in Thai language. "Muay Thai or Muaythai (มวยไทย)" means Thai boxing by adding the word of Thai (ไทย) in order to refer that this sport is from Thailand and not confused with boxing, governed by IBA (มวย). (Muay is the same sound and meaning of "ມວຍ" in the Laotian language) But the name Muaythai was opposed by Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia because they have similar sports. You can see that Laos has the similar sport and name (Because Laotian is similar to Thai). Its name is Muay Lao. If the organizing committee used the world of "Muaythai" they will not participate. You can see that Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia send delegates until 2017 (the year that the organizing committee used Muaythai and the IOC was provicially recognized IFMA) While the organizing committee of the OCA events can use the name of Muaythai since 2014 (ABG in Thailand)/2016(ABG in Vietnam)/2017(AIMAG in Turkmenistan), the organizing committee of the SEA Games cannot use the name of Muaythai because Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia will not send delegates and the minimum delegates will not achieve.--Dinnerbrone (talk) 16:44, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

– If you understand the Thai language, I hope you will not need a source about the name. Muay Thai is not just a sport, but it is an art and culture. Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand have a common culture. They disputed everything in the culture. The use of Muay is the best way in the earliest stage, but today Muaythai is popular and world-wide because it recognized by IOC, FISU and included in World Games, European Games, and AIMAG, and will include in Asian Games 2034 in Saudi Arabia (This news is from the president of Saudi NOC when he visited Thailand this year) --Dinnerbrone (talk) 17:00, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

– Today there are no IFMA members from Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia, although they have many greatest athletes in muaythai (Mainland Southeast Asian martial arts rather). Member from Asia --Dinnerbrone (talk) 17:03, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

– I recommended that we should not change the name from muay to muaythai in these articles, also synchronized swimming and yachting that you contributed. The use of Muay, synchronized swimming, and yachting will show the histories of these sports, so the younger generation can appreciate them.--Dinnerbrone (talk) 17:07, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Comment - You write a book to make your point!! and make it almost impossible to understand. wikipedia doesn't use the official names necessarily. IOC and everybody else uses the name "Hockey" while in wikipedia it's "Field hockey" do you want to rename Field hockey at the Asian Games to Hockey at the Asian Games ? you can try but good luck with that. and btw if you think Muaythai is the most correct (and common) word for this sport, you should rename Muay Thai to Muaythai. Sports2021 (talk) 21:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose all. The nomination appears to be based entirely on the opinion that we should stick to official names rather than common ones. No relevant evidence has been supplied, and this opinion is contrary to long-established consensus. Andrewa (talk) 06:34, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.